Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by LymanBostock Fan on December 18, 2014 at 5:34pm

Rock,The Timetoast History of Sharpie page is very very flawed.   I can tell you that I started collecting in person in 1977 and blue, purple, and red sharpies were in existence by then.   In fact, attached are three unquestionably real Thurman Munson signed cards, all signed in blue sharpie. (I will post more, but this site limits you to 3 attachments.)  If you think they were all signed right before Munson died, you are nuts, as Munson was among the most difficult signers out there and signed very little his last 2 years.  In fact, in my life, I have only seen 1 authentic signed 1979 Topps, although I believe there are probably a half dozen to dozen that exist.

The article from the sharpie company doesn't state what you are inferring it states.  Specifically it states "1979 - A new style tip is introduced in four colors, the Sharpie Extra Fine Point marker."  The wording is a "new style tip".   As mentioned, red, purple, and blue were already in existence by 1977 as I used these.   In fact, I can pull up some Danny Frisella signed cards, signed in red and blue sharpie - and Frisella died January, 1977.

Are you doubting the authenticity of any of these 3 signed Munson cards?

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• Munson70-3.jpg, 72 KB
• Munson72-5-$1626-MemoryLane-Dec-2011.jpg, 70 KB
• Munson71-3-$1476-Feb-2012.jpg, 42 KB

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 18, 2014 at 5:41pm

The images are small, but the second two appear as if they could be Flair Felt Tip.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 18, 2014 at 5:44pm

Again, I'd be hesitant to categorize any of these as Sharpies unless I had a much better image... but they appear to be standard Flair Felt Tips or maybe even rollerball on a few. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 18, 2014 at 5:48pm

It appears the bottom part of the T intersects with the tape. Is the ink under or on top of the tape?

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Permalink Reply by LymanBostock Fan on December 18, 2014 at 5:50pm

Steve,

The bottom part of the T is just to the left of the tape.  It does not intersect the tape.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 18, 2014 at 5:55pm

That's too bad. It would not be definitive either way, but if the signature was under the tape (which was applied a long time ago) it would weigh in its favor. If the signature was on top -- not a good sign.

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Permalink Reply by LymanBostock Fan on December 18, 2014 at 6:00pm

Good point, Steve.   Unfortunately, it is inconclusive on that front.

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Permalink Reply by Null on December 19, 2014 at 7:34am

All of these authentic exemplars you have provided do not match up at all to the one in question IMHO. Many letter formations aren't even close, the angle of the M is way off, every one you provided the "unson" is seperate from the M, yet in yours it is connected to the rest of the last name. Not to mention that it looks fairly slowly and awkwardly signed. It is not a fluid nice natural signature IMO which I noticed when I first clicked on this thread. Also, you are saying you believe it resembles an "early 70s" signature, yet Blue Sharpie came out in 1977?

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Permalink Reply by LymanBostock Fan on December 19, 2014 at 8:08am

Ryan,

What I said is that I started using blue sharpies in 1977.  I don't know when they came out, but it was before 1977 based on personal experience.  I have also seen many real Danny Frisella signed cards in blue sharpie.  Frisella died in January 1977.  Assuming collectors got them signed during the 1976 baseball season, this means that blue sharpies were on the market by the summer of 1976.    I suspect they were introduced even earlier than this (my best guess is 1973-1974, but it is just a guess).

Regarding the Munson signed picture, if authentic, it is clearly his 1973-1975 style signature, and if real, most likely would have been signed in the 1975-ish time frame I'm guessing.  The early style signature had the "M" connected to the "unson", with the u starting from the bottom, rather than the top.  I agree with you the "M" has an odd formation.  I don't know how many in-person signatures you've gotten, but a single odd formation could be someone interrupting a signer, the signer moving, etc.   The "M" causes me the most question about the authenticity. 

I see you and Steve provided further analysis and will read/study further.  I have hundreds of Munson exemplar samples in my digital collection.  I will study further and see if I can find something that provides a better match to this one.

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Permalink Reply by Null on December 19, 2014 at 7:40am

Here is a similar photo that was authenticated by JSA, a much more natural looking signature:

Here is a side by side comparision, look how awkward the "M" is in yours, as well as general angle of letters:

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Permalink Reply by Null on December 19, 2014 at 7:45am

Here is the same exact photo, this one certified by PSA/DNA, it does not compare with yours at all, not even one letter other than MAYBE the "h". 

I have added this one to our comparison with the other 2, the top and bottom are very similar, yours in the middle sticks out like a sore thumb:

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 19, 2014 at 7:49am

Going back through all the exemplars presented -- assuming they are authentic -- they all present a slight left slant. This is most evident in the A in Thurman and the U in Munson, which clearly rock back to the left.

In the questioned example, they have a significant right slant.

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