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Authenticity is Everything
ok... What kind of licenses do PSA, GAI and JSA possess???
ok.. this is a tricky one. I went to a Guitar buyer recently (they travel around and advertise that they are buying vintage guitars etc.). I'm looking to sell my autographed guitars and signed pickgards- i have too many autographs and not enough room to display them so my wife said to get rid of these- which i'm fine with- i'd rather just go back to buying vintage and concert used guitars anyway.
so here's the story. Their ad said "WE BUY SIGNED GUITARS." as well as everything else they were buying. so i took a few over there to see what they were willing to pay and what they were buying. The items in Question:
1) Metallica signed guitar from 2008- a james hetfield model guitar Truckster from 2008 signed by the whole band.
2) a Les Paul special (fairly cheap gibson guitar) signed by Roger Waters
3) a les paul special (also a cheaper model guitar) signed by REM's 3 members.
now i'm sure that they are just doing all this because they are really hoping someone will bring in something special that they don't know the value of. I already understood that this is a bunch of vultures hoping to pick on some people who are out of work and NEED the money (this area has lost over 400,000 jobs in the past 4 years) and will sell cheap. but i have a specific price i want for the items and i figured that if they came close, i'd be happy. but i don't NEED the money by any means and could hang this stuff in the restaurant in the bowling alley if i want to. so here's what happened.
There was a lady who met me at the door. her job was to greet and get people to fill out the form of what they were selling and provide a name and contact information. that was fine.. but then she started to explain something interesting.
"WE are looking for stuff that has been examined by a licensed authenticator." which really got to me.. who is a LICENSED AUTHENTICATOR? I had asked her, but she kind of explained to me that this is someone with a governed type of licensing. Like there's a Government agency testing and licensing signature authenticators.
I did ask if she was talking about PSA DNA, JSA etc. and she didn't really know what i was talking about. She did know who PSA DNA was and that they take stuff that's been authenticated by them before. But I don't think that any of those guys are licensed to do anything? Are they? There's no licensing board or administrative board giving these guys licenses is there? this is the question I'm asking.
in the end. I ended up spending a few hours with the buyers talking about autographs etc. they wouldn't sell me a guitar I wanted for myself because this was just a middleman service and they weren't there to sell guitars. after seeing my proof pics and seeing that you can see the precise autograph being signed onto the guitar they made me a few offers... basically- $50 per autograph above the cost of the guitar. they tried telling me that since everyone I had was still alive and not very valuable as a result (no one over there apparently knows how tough michael stipe or james hetfield are- especially on guitars). They tried telling me that the guys in Metallica are really only worth $10 an autograph- even after i told them that I sold a James Hetfield 8x10 on ebay for $80.
Then a guy came in with a guitar signed by The Eagles- complete. with a letter of authenticity from Ballpark collectibles. he had no proof pics and no licensed authenticator letter. and when they tried to call Ballpark collectibles, every phone number didn't work. so they didn't even make an offer..
After all this, i'm sure they were just hoping to unearth some kind of treasure like a guitar signed by buddy holly or something and get it cheap... cause i saw what kind of guitars they were buying and some of the stuff they turned down was pretty nice too.. i didn't see another autograph come through the door though.
AGAIN THOUGH. DO PSA DNA, GAI, JSA HOLD ANY TYPE OF LICENSE OTHER THAN YOUR STANDARD BUSINESS LICENSE???
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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I have been doing informal authentication for collectors of some astronauts for over 10 years now. Several dealers also send me scans for a pass/fail.
I usually try to give a brief explanation why something is not good, but often the answer is, I've seen thousands of these and this one just doesn't look right.
I know that may not be as complete of an answer as some people want, but I just don't have the time to draw diagrams mapping differences, etc., etc.
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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on
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See, I bet the customers are saying the same thing. It would at least stem the blind anger that we have seen on this site and others as to how an item was failed with no regard to informing the customer as to why. Especially in the cases where the person got the item signed in-person.
If this in-person signature that was failed could be proven to have really been signed as stated, that is an example the experts need to record so the same mistake doesn't happen again.
Customer's and their items can be of great use to the continuing education of ANY expert. We NEVER stop learning.
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I don't disagree with any of this. :-)
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Permalink Reply by James R. Altmann on
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Try telling an authenticator at any of the big 3 letter companies they have made a mistake (or less) and see how far that gets you. Whether audible or not, you will be laughed out of the room. I've heard that when they check into hotels for those big tent sports type conventions they have to ask for two rooms per authenticator - one to sleep in and the other for their ego.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on
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Mike -
Answer to your question: They are not required to have any types of licenses, permits, diplomas, professional courses, etc., nor do I know that any member of PSA, JSA, pr GAI who has any of the above.
All you need to become a "professional authenticator" is an advertising budget.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Greg, talk about squalid conditions:
The reason authenticators are behind the curtain at shows is that they hire day laborers in front of Home Depot to authenticate for them. They save a fortune on airfare, meals and hotels.
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Zsa Zsa...definitely about the diamonds.
I never cared much for Zsa Zsa, but Eva drove me wild. So sweet...so adorable.
So what if she gathered allergic smelling hay?
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It all comes down to:
a.) Advertising dollars
b.) Allies in the trade
c.) Propaganda you are able to foist on the public
d.) Legal support
When you weigh ONLY the above, Morales = PSA, Spence...and Alexander. No?
This should stir up some sh_t.
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Guys, this is getting a bit absurd and I'm starting to feel like I am reading a thread at some other site.
Certainly advertising and internal politics play a big part in the emergence of PSA and JSA. That's business and how life works.
Part of the reason they have the support and have gone as far as they have, is that there is expertise. Yes, they make more mistakes than they should. Yes, they have expanded into fields where they probably don't belong. But, I believe they are essentially honest and trying to run a legitimate business.
So, comparing them to Morales and his ilk on any level is just wrong.
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Well said, Zippy.
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You guys oughta love this. Just saw today on SCD:
http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/article/psa_new_jersey_office
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PSA Opening New Jersey Office
To meet the increasing needs of collectors and dealers in the eastern United States, especially in the hobby of autograph collecting, PSA and PSA/DNA Authentication Services will open an office in Woodbridge, N.J., this summer.
Submissions will be accepted in person by appointment at the new office; however, all items submitted by mail to PSA and PSA/DNA must still be directed to the long-time California office unless pre-approved by the staff.
"We are very excited about the New Jersey office," said Joe Orlando, president of PSA and PSA/DNA, divisions of Collectors Universe, Inc. "It is near Interstate 95 and centrally located between the heart of New York City and Philadelphia. Considering the concentrated customer base on the upper east coast, and the growing popularity of PSA/DNA-certified autographs, the time is right to provide an additional location for our customers."
Orlando said the new office will improve turnaround times on many submissions.
"We've had three consecutive record quarters for PSA/DNA, and some members of our staff have been traveling over 100,000 miles each year to service our customers. A few of our California employees will be relocating to the New Jersey office, and we'll be hiring additional employees. By being able to process autographs on both coasts more efficiently, our turnaround times will naturally improve."
Only autographs will be processed at the New Jersey location, however, the new office will also accept all other items for submission such as trading cards, tickets, photographs, sports memorabilia and game-used items for evaluation by PSA and PSA/DNA authenticators and graders located in California and elsewhere.
"We'll be able to encapsulate authenticated items in the New Jersey office, such as autographed cuts and autographed cards. It also will be easier and more convenient for eastern U.S. collectors and dealers to submit larger items, such as autographed bats and helmets, without mailing them."
The New Jersey office also plans on hosting open submission days, similar to the "PSA Fridays" in California where the public can personally submit items and meet PSA and PSA/DNA staff members.
"People have been asking me for several years, "When are you going to open an East Coast office?' Well, the answer is, 'This summer,' and we'll have additional information about it in the weeks ahead with a formal announcement at the National Sports Collectibles Convention," Orlando said.
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