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Authenticity is Everything
The much debated Ruth removed from the frame
Decided to start a new thread... Local memorabilia shop confirmed live ink and we removed it from the frame. It was processed in the mail in 1937 based on the reverse side. Took a few more photos before we packaged it up for JSA
the shop owner who’s been doing this for 40 years. “I strongly believe you got lucky as hell.”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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+100!!!
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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I think a PSA opinion from 2005 is better than their opinions in 2019. I would value it more anyway.
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Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on
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Eric wrote: "This makes very little sense to me. If I trusted myself, and/or the majority of people why send it in? A sticker? Peace of what - mind? $350 plus what? To me, craziness."
$350 + the price paid for the piece still leaves room for profit if the piece is one day sold with a major's COA.
Going the extra distance, rather than taking the path of least resistance, is a good thing in a hobby to some, business to others where fraud runs rampant and errors abound, even at the grading companies themselves.
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I too have gone the extra distance despite resistance. Gleason SP in a word. Two? ;)
I just won't pay for opinions, esp from those I don't know - and from those I know & respect, their opinions are free, if few, but oh so meaningful
PS IMHO truly good goods don't need papers, sell themselves and rarely start 10 page threads. YMMV.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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My thoughts on this Ruth signed postcard are essentially unchanged from the beginning. Provided that this is not in some way a copy or reproduction, I believe that it is a genuine Ruth signature. I certainly, however, feel this is an item wherein in-hand inspection is going to be paramount.
Being that I am not a court-qualified Forensics Document Examiner, I don’t know enough about issues like ink-feathering and other related issues. Of course, I say that tongue-in-cheek, but I truly don’t know much about such issues that might be able to help uncover the truth about authenticity.
But solely regarding the signature itself, it looks very solid as an authentic Ruth.
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It has been my experience that most of these older dealers just don't know - they can be good revenue. I have one source that prices material purely on who signed - not what was signed. This is good. :)
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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The discussion seems to have focused solely on the formation of the signature, yet authentication should consider the “whole picture.”
Questions I would ask include:
- How often did Ruth authentically sign “Sincerely” without adding the name of the recipient?
- How was this signed… why this envelope? It seems like an “item of opportunity” used during a chance encounter. Yet, the signature appears to be a carefully applied sit down signature with “Sincerely” added. And if it was a response to a mail request, why would he add “Sincerely” without the recipient’s name?
- It is postmarked in Kansas. If it was a response to a mail request, wouldn't it be postmarked in New York?
- Provenance / source is part of the equation. While you cannot judge a signature solely from its source, it is a factor that can be weighed. Some people will falsely argue against this (usually people who sell fakes), but it can matter. For instance, a “slightly atypical” signature coming from a credible source with solid provable provenance would not be weighed equally as a “slightly atypical” signature with no provenance coming from a unreliable source.
In short, if the signature analysis fails to provide a clear answer, look at the circumstantial evidence. Sometimes you will arrive at a conclusion because the circumstantial evidence doesn't add up.
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+100 if I cant get a clear sum I'll skip the equation - esp after 11 pages. Too many questions.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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Great points to consider Steve
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Permalink Reply by Michael Brown on
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Ok. I’m going to chime in. Steve brings up great questions.. so I will add one observation. The top of the “S” overlaps the cancellation stamp.. shouldn’t it be the other way around. We would assume this would be a TTM and not an IP graph. So the signature was applied after the cancellation wherein if it was TTM it should’ve been applied before the cancellation.
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Your logic has merit, however, it may not be on top of the cancellation.
Typically, the darker / bolder line appears to be on top, even when it is not. It is an optical illusion. I believe it's impossible to know for certain through a photo.
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+1
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