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Authenticity is Everything
Bob Dylan AUTOPEN Info To Help With Returns / Refunds - Simon & Schuster, Premiere, and Coles
***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Bob Dylan's Manager
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Bob Dylan's Agent
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Bob Dylan's Production Agent
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Bob Dylan's Law Firm
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Josh Board NEW & Improved on
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Two things. First, another reason Dylan would win any legal action (or it would never come to that), is this. At work the other day, I got emailed some documents I had to "sign". Well, we've all had this same situation. I was able to sign "electronically." I took the mouse, and moved it in what my signature looks like (and it looked only vaguely like my signature). And a few weeks earlier, I signed something electronically from my bank, but they said I could merely type my legal full name and that would count as my signature for all the documents I'd type it in.
Soooo....Dylan's lawyers would say "what is and isn't a 'signature' these days has changed."
Second, and I think I said this before -- this Dylan thing is the best thing that could have happened for this autopen BS, because....had this been a smaller artist, a few people complain, a few get refunds, yadda yadda yadda. THIS STORY....made national news, in all publications and media outlets, and it will keep the companies from NOT wanting to deal with autopen anymore. Or they'd be really stupid to welcome this kind of wrath from all of us.
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Permalink Reply by Lars Olav Karlsen on
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Sorry, but this is just a distraction.
Hand signed by Dylan is and will never be a machine. This was fraud, and only reason why I wount get in a lawsuit is because the publisher and galleries will be compensated so they wount
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Permalink Reply by Dubroni on
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To prove fraud you have to show intent. Dylan's lawyers have him covered. He didn't intend to create a fraud (according to them). He was just poorly informed....
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I agree with Josh. The great outcome from this (aside from the refunds) is that hopefully in the future, other celebrities or their publishers will be less likely to use or accept autopens.
The rest of the debate is just academic. Bob Dylan is not going to jail. People are getting refunded and keeping the items they purchased, which, incidentally, do have some value on the secondary market despite the autopen signatures.
As for the affected artwork, if people bought it for the autograph then the enjoyment is probably ruined, but if they bought it as art, then they still have an official limited edition print from Bob Dylan. Framing costs are expensive, but even an autopenned limited edition is probably worth more than the cost of framing.
As has already been discussed, Bob Dylan using an autopen to sign limited edition prints is nowhere near the most controversial thing that happens in the art world.
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The difference here is that Hand Signed is what it says on the tin and that’s what people have paid for. His signature gives authenticity to something he has created. It is saying yes this is a print of mine.
The example you have quoted regarding your bank and work have other safeguards eg they can tell exactly which computer you were using and where it was. It is not comparable to Dylan signing his art where there are no such safe guards - just people in a room - however during the period he has confessed there was no one in the room to help him as he was suffering from Vertigo and frightened of catching covid. You can forget blank pieces of paper being signed like for example Dali. My understanding from has always been that these are printed and sent / taken to him for signing. Do not forget the prints are supposed to be limited edition for example 295 and each should be individually numbered at the same time . If it was blank signed then that is another hornets nest - how do we know only 295 were actually produced. Let’s stick to facts and not think of things which give these people any excuse to wriggle out of what or what has not happened.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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...Soooo....Dylan's lawyers would say "what is and isn't a 'signature' these days has changed."...
I just posted something very similar. It's going to be the legal terminology. "Signed", "signature" etc.
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I think what his lawyers would say is: Our client mistakenly believed that an auto pen version of his hand signed signature was fulfilling his obligation.
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No - it would be a legal terminology about what «hand signed by» is.
It is starting to look like someone here now are starting to try and excuse Dylan and their team.
His lawyers will of cause try everything they can - that is their job. The judges look to the law - not the deffence lawyers.
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Are you referring to me? I am not excusing Dylan at all. He is totally at fault and has acted like a despicable criminal. But, proving that in court? Very difficult because his lawyers have plausible arguments....
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What plausibel argument do they have that indicates that a autopen is HAND signed?
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They don't have any plausible argument that auto pen is the same as hand signed. It doesn't matter, legally. What matters is what did Dylan believe. That goes to intent. To prosecute, you have to prove intent. You have to prove that Dylan intended to defraud his fans. That is very hard to prove, and his lawyers have crafted, in his apology, a plausible explanation. Believe me, I don't believe it, but that would be their argument, and he would win, and because of that, they will never prosecute. UNLESS, they get evidence that he knew that what he was doing was fraud.
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