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Authenticity is Everything
Clark Gable?
Here's one I'd like to get an opinion on. It's a Gable signature on a Laszlo Willinger photo from a movie called "Strange Cargo." I've wondered about this one for a long time. I sent a photo of the autograph in to AutographCOA some time back for an online opinion. They said it was good. I'd still like to have some of your thoughts about it.
There is some guy selling copies of this exact same photo on eBay for about $10. It's the same identical signature in exactly the same spot as this signature. I've looked at this signature very closely under the lights. This signature was signed with a pen. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks Ladies and Gentlemen, Mike.ohotograph
Tags: Clark Gable
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Items purchased from POTP, or a UACC dealer, or that have an ACOA pre-cert from a scan are not "certified" or considered "authenticated". The ACOA pre-cert states that the item could still be a facsimile, reproduction or preprint. An in hand examination, full COA, is needed. You wrote and said "I was not aware that a POTP COA had no value." - but you have how many items currently on eBay from them listed as "authenticated" or "certified"?
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Michael Bratcher on
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I didn't get bad info on Piece of the Past until you and Eddy made your thoughts about the company known. I read Kevin Martin's credentials and thought they were quite impressive. If what he says about himself on the COAs is true, his accomplishments are pretty impressive. To be honest, I'm still not 100% convinced that he is a shyster.
If it's possible, bear in my that over the past couple of years I've heard and read good and bad about every authentication company out there. That goes for Beckett, JSA., and PSA/DNA as well. I've read horror stories about those 3. I don't think you guys are getting my point. I haven't known who to trust. I have a JSA Certified Fred Astaire that's as phony as a 9 dollar bill. Even a beginner like me can spot it. Do I trust JSA knowing they're doling out COAs on fakes?
Right now Eddy is questioning an Audrey Hepburn with a LOA from one of the top three, I forget which one. Do I trust that company if it's proven to be fake?
On eBay listings, PSA has a link where an interested buyer can get an online opinion before purchasing the item. If online opinions are not credible, why is a big company like PSA doing that. Isn't that a borderline deceptive trade practice? Sure, an opinion is just that, an opinion. But what about the buyer who is basing the possible purchase of an expensive autograph on an "opinion?"
eBay has a 30-day money back policy. A great many authentication orders that are sent in to the big three companies take longer than 30 days to complete. I'm just asking the question. What happens if the authentication order goes past 30 days and the order autograph turns out to be a fake? Who will cover the buyer's loss?
You folks base a great many of your judgements about autographs on scans, and photos, along with other information, like the seller's reputation etc. We've been trying to the determine the likelihood of authenticity of this Gable autograph based on photos.
I agree. The best way to know for sure, besides watching a person sign an autograph, is to have it authenticated by a qualified authentication expert. My question is: Who? You might have noticed, as I have about this business, every one is a bona-fide expert, Mueller, Martin, Rutland, JSA, everyone.
You folks are pretty new to me. I haven't been a member that long. I don't really know a lot about your backgrounds in autographs. I don't know who knows what. I'm learning. But that takes time, and proof. In this ndustry which is so full of "experts" a sense of trust based on knowledge, experience, and technical expertise is essential. I'm just learning about you, just like you're learning about me.
Eric, you said earlier that "You don't think you trust me." That's ok. I know me. My wife laughed when I told her that.
But look this situation in my shoes. As many times as I've been burned by this industry so full of "experts," do you think I trust anyone wholeheartedly? Trust takes time to develop for everyone. I don't blame you for being suspicious of me. I'm suspicious of you. Why? Because I don't know you any better than you know me. I don't know what you know and don't know. I'm learning. Developing trust between you snd I will take action and time on all our parts. Trust is not a given at first. It's earned, both ways.
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Permalink Reply by Eddy on
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Mike - It's a Katharine Hepburn TLS that you have pictured on your listing that I was asking about...not Audrey Hepburn. Also, and I think you might appreciate knowing this, your listing for that Hepburn TLS has a description for an The African Queen Hepburn signed photo. The listing image is definitely of a TLS matted with a photo that is not from The African Queen (it's an earlier 40s image of her).
p.s. Can you verify yay or nay that the Katharin Hepburn TLS has red printing of her name on the top of the letter? That's really the only question I had about it aside from the scan reproduction quality of the Beckett LOA. I know from my own experience that scanners glitch all the time, unfortunately.
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I just snapped a photo of the "Katherine" Hepburn for you. I'll check those other items you mentioned in s bit. I have some "clean up" to do at the moment.
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Thanks, that's the way it should look!
Just one more suggestion on it. Correct your listing so that her name reads as:
"Katharine"
rather than
"Katherine"
.....otherwise potential buyers won't find it if they enter a search for her.
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Will do. I'm tired! Thanks Eddy.
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I'm not the greatest photographer. I just do the best I can. In person the letterhead is fine, nice and vibrant. It's the photographer who is dull and faded.
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Don't take my word for it - search the sellers name here. If I listed all my credentials they'd be impressive too. The signed item is what matters.
The JSA cert for the Burton is just wrong.
Mr. M, Martin and Rutland are not experts.
You may be, are, placing too much emphasis on opinions. I find it essential to know one's subject fully.
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Well, I don't know the subject fully. I really wonder who does? Now, someone is saying the JSA is "wrong." Great! Well, there goes my trust in JSA, one of the industry leaders in autograph authentications!
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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Here’s a full Beatles set that they got wrong. Yes, a full set of four signatures.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/jsa-authenticated-b...
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This whole autograph business is all screwed up! I have a few ideas that would help make it a whole lot cleaner, and more trust worthy.
I discuss them in a while. Right now, I have some clean up on aisle number 1. 🤣
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