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Signs That a Dealer is Likely Selling Forgeries

How do you identify a bad autograph dealer? Whether you're at their website, in their gallery or store, or they're selling at events or conventions, there are signs to look for and questions to ask that will minimize your odds of being taken by the crooks. Share your tips, questions and experiences here.

Tags: bad, buying, dealers, forgeries, galleries, safe, tips

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Permalink Reply by DB on April 18, 2011 at 3:30am

That's what distinguishes this place Greg, as you well know, from others.  Of course we don't use your name illegally either or so it appears.  Although I think we should all change our Names got GregTheFirst,Second, Third and so on...

 

I do hope June pulled an authentic one as in this cirucmstance she would be more than deserving. On the other hand it would also be prudent to advise otherwise to avert any further conflicts that could arise in the future.  And, if by the luck of the draw it is authentic I would seek out another COA  (e.g. JSA, PSA/DNA, GA) and replace the Marino COA as a result while avoiding the future discussions.

Permalink Reply by june munroe on April 16, 2011 at 4:59pm
I have just returned from my parents home trying to put things together and I am so exhausted.  Could you all tell me what you are saying>????  thanks - june
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 16, 2011 at 5:31pm

June,

DB is questioning the Mantle and I told him that if he thinks I should I'll have it checked out further next week. You'll keep getting automatic updates as long as you're a member of the discussion.

Permalink Reply by DB on April 16, 2011 at 10:40pm

You might want to post how to remove oneself from a discussion (come to think of it where is the nifty "help" feature....

 

& June, yes it's because of the connection to Angelo Marino.  While there was some authentic items intermixed with  many "nonAUthentic" ones which is why the COA naming him and his "front" was nailed in Bullpen (and not the artist as Steve needs some R&R ;-) by the Feds.  Rather than a cut signature the entire item s/b viewed inclduing the COA.  The focus ought to be on the item not necessarily the "authenticator" but when it comes from certain "authenticators" it deserves a more rigorous scrutiny.  Although, at the mere mention of certain people many will just say "pass" and rightly so.. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 20, 2011 at 9:20am

June,

As I emailed you yesterday, I'm really sorry but we were wrong about the signature on the Mantle lithograph. I had it checked out again after DB questioned it, and we don't think it's good.

It was a real lesson about the limitations of today's technology. The guy I sent it to reviewed the close-up of the signature I sent him on his "smart" phone, not a computer, and it looked good to him. But it's a piece he recognized as a forgery once he got back in the office this week and saw it on the computer screen.

DB was right about these COAs being a sign to watch out for, since it's from a source known to have sold forgeries years ago (discovered in the Operation Bullpen investigation). But when I send autographs out for opinions, I don't send the COAs—we let the autographs speak for themselves.

I feel terrible about this, considering all you've been through. You bought from a source you would have naturally thought was reliable. These guys fooled some of the sharpest collectors and dealers across the US for years. The forgeries were everywhere from the mid-1990s to the early-2000's, when the forgery ring was busted by the FBI.

Again, my apologies.

Steve

Permalink Reply by DB on April 20, 2011 at 1:31pm

after all these years they are still having a profound impact.  I really hoped I would be wrong in this specific case.  There is no joy in Mudville except perhaps for a disparate small irrelevant few.

 

One just has to wonder how many other gifts are in this same terrible mess.

Permalink Reply by Rich on April 15, 2011 at 8:58pm
I always like the Ebay sellers who in their descriptions seem to dare you to prove it's fake, even though it obviously is.
Permalink Reply by John Smith on April 16, 2011 at 1:39pm

Steve, what do you think of this?

http://www.decisionpointauthentications.co.uk/

 

Have you ever heard of this guy? A google search of that URL will bring up a TON of ebay auctions with items authenticated by this company. What do you guys think?

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 16, 2011 at 5:27pm
I don't know anything about him, John. You may want to ask an AFTAL dealer.
Permalink Reply by John Smith on April 16, 2011 at 5:34pm
Thanks for the reply Steve, will try and get more info. Just wanted to get the name out there before people start jumping in and buying.
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 16, 2011 at 5:39pm

John,

Post some examples in this discussion if you'd like:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/categories/what-do-you-thin...

And you can ask about eBay sellers in this discussion:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/categories/what-do-you-thin...

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 20, 2011 at 12:43pm

I wasn't aware of this particular thread until today.  I was alerted to the Mickey Mantle via a post on Net54 and traced that Mantle to here.

Yes, it's an ugly Mantle.  But what is even uglier is the fact that literally thousands of bad sellers take advantage of  those who have no knowledge of autographs.  Think about this; there are probably millions of casuals collectors who own forgeries; yes, millions.   They believe everything they read without a thought to do any research or ask advice.  For lack of a better term, how about the "soccer moms" who are on Ebay every day looking for gifts for family members and are convinced that because it is accompanied by a COA that it must be authentic.  They assume that because it is on Ebay that is must be authentic, too.  And we all know that nothing could be further from the truth.

Sometimes I will ask a buyer why they bid and purchased a particular item.  And they will reply "Well it comes with a COA."  I will then inform them of their mistake and they will always ask "But why would they sell a fake?  As long as it comes with a COA doesn't that make it authentic?  Isn't that illegal?"  Duh!!!  For some reason these buyers don't want to believe that it's all about greed and money. 

During the Barack Obama presidential campaign they were literally hundreds of Obama forgeries being sold daily on Ebay in the form of books, photos, baseballs, etc.   There were about twenty sellers who were selling Obama signed books at the rate of 2-4 per day and yet I bet not one of those bidders asked the buyer how they acquired so many Obama signed books.  That's only a microcosm of what happens on the internet these days.

The sellers know there are millions of people to prey upon and that's why it continues.

 

 

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