Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 18, 2012 at 2:14am

Mr Dan Gregory & Mr Rick Meyer hi I am Jason Thanos I have been In person for over a decade I have traveled the globe no stop you can ask or anyone in this board can ask about me. You can also view my website.

The reason sir's I mention you is because you say you would not shop from anyone on Aftal, Well I am Aftal I joined them because 1 they are closer to Home as I am based in the UK and 2 because I believed they would help clean the market as much as they can .

But by you guys saying everyone is a bad apple it also says the same about me, Now if I was known for doing bad things and have done ever , I would stand up and be spat at and I would deserve it, But I have been respected for many years I have offered my support to forums like Acaf for years and even when I was asked to comment on some items here on this forum i did this two.

I work really hard at times I dont get to see my family for 3 weeks at a time and sometimes for 2 months as I do the most crazy and extreme trips.

So when some one says am bad because I joined an outfit that is there to help which is what I do every day of my life, It is heart breaking to say the list. Why should I be called a bad person when I have done nothing wrong. Now I speak for my self but I can also name a few other good people that I would trust in the UK that have never ever had a single bad experience that are Also Aftal , why would we all be labeled as bad apples because some incident.

I dont come here to defent anyone but myself or maybe some one else who feels they would like to also speak but are afraid too , We all know that 1000s read this forums but are scared to comment as they feel they will get thrown in the frying pan.

I would ask of all of you guys if you wish to go up against some one please do that as long as it does not harm other innocent people, I came here with the best intentions I believe I have spoken fair and if you think not then you are welcomed to show why, I ask that roger visits my website and looks at my music stock and then you will see I am not a forger neither do I sell fakes , And I have never threatened anyone except I do help out the people who go up against fakers, I report so many on a weekly basis that at times I feel am wasting my life, But I also feel like a good christian it is my duty to help when I can and that maybe some day we wont have as many fakers as we do now.

Jason Thanos

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 18, 2012 at 12:41pm

Jason,

  I like your reply. Sounds fair enough. Your point to me is noted. Obviously my post touched a nerve. Thats good. Shows me your passionate about what you do. You may well be a very respectable and honest dealer. I have never looked at your items individually nor have I ever purchased anything from you. I do business with whomever I personally trust and who I've had a good relationship with.

  I spoke directly about AFTAL. Everything I stated dealt with me individually or my personal opinion....which I stated was my opinion. If others want to read my opinion thats fine. If not thats fine to. I did not toss any accusations to a particular dealer or dealers. I just choose to avoid those who belong to AFTAL. It is my money that I spend and if a dealer advertises AFTAL then I wont be purchasing anything from them. I would rather base my opinion on you as a dealer based on your individual record and from past dealings. Being a member of AFTAL does not give me any more a warm and fuzzy then if you were a small dealer who belonged to no association.

 My OPINION again about AFTAL is just that...I BELIEVE that AFTAL may have been started with good intentions. I believe AFTAL's main goals nowadays is to protect member dealers and their high end stock as well as chase away non AFTAL competition then it is to protect the consumer or to uphold the integrity of the hobby. Something gets questioned, AFTAL states it believes it is authentic and the dealers continues selling it. Unknowing consumers continue buying and hanging the garbage on their walls.

  You've obviously read this thread. I'm curious your thoughts on AFTAL board members when pointed to questionable items resorting to digging up dirt and tossing counter accusations? This guy here made the claim somebody with a good reputation authenticated something, then he retracts it and says it was compared to something the reputable authenticator had blessed off on to then finding a thread from a very questionable source that claims this authenticator makes mistakes and alludes to him not being very good at authenticating period. This guy is the founder and a current board member of AFTAL isn't he? I'd think he is doing you honest dealers more harm then I am by speaking my own mind on it. Nobody listens to me anyway. Board member from AFTAL on the other hand I'd think plenty of people are looking and listening to what he does. The exchange here looks pretty bad to me and I'm a borderline idiot. I wonder how the smart people who read this exchange think of it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on August 19, 2012 at 1:40am

Rick, I personally agree with you about their president? I would think the members of AFTAL would be up in arms about their founders comments and actions. I dont have anything against AFTAL or have anything to say about them other than their brand doesnt mean anything particularly to me when purchasing an autograph. But the fact that their founder and one of their members is not only passing bad items, but also is lying about certed items and then resulting to trying to smear authenticators that he praised in the previous sentence, is truly disturbing. Of course this is just one man, not AFTAL, but if i was a dealer or member associated with them, id be after this mans head. He has proved his worth in one paragraph. Just my two cents

Carl

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 19, 2012 at 9:32am

If I were an honest dealer I would take my membership fees and disassociate myself from this shady group. I would view them as tainting my name and costing me business. Honest dealers dont need to belong to this group anyway. Their individual reputation means more anyway.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on August 18, 2012 at 1:04pm

you almost had me Jason until you added the "good Christian" part....LOL

Seriously though, just another reason to never buy another autograph. Why would anyone bother to subject themselves to this business/hobby? It's neither fun or funny on every level.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dan Gregory on August 18, 2012 at 3:25am

Hi Jason, thanks for your reply and you do appear to be one of the good guys being tainted by the AFTAL founders unacceptable actions.

My own personal experience with AFTAL has not been good but I do appreciate that there will be some good sellers caught up with everyone else. Hopefully you can keep going and get through this situation and get rid of those who seem intent on destroying this hobby.

Out of interest are you or any other AFTAL Dealers wanting your Founder to stay on the AFTAL Board or can you remove him and any others via a vote of no confidence?

AFTAL surely must realise that this has been a terrible PR own goal especially for those dealers such as yourself who work really hard and must take action to remedy this rather than burying their heads or defending him.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 18, 2012 at 4:19am

Thank you dan appreciated even though I dont know you its nice to hear the good comments.

Look My problem with any dealer in the world is always the same, Unless you obtain everything by yourself there will always be a doubt . Now some people know but some dont have a clue how many different variations some celebs have so they just Trust the Person they buy from and this is a MAJOR issue for me as I have seen 100s of Dealers get burned in this manner.

I see so many dealers that are UACC or AFTAL etc that every now and then sell fakes and I have got into arguments with some , Many are nice they would say ok fair enough I believe you and I will take the item down ask for refund or destroy it. But then there are the ones that will get on the high horse and will say who the f*** are you to tell us what is and what is not (To Be fair there are not many as they know am a slave to the game but it does happen).

My problem with all this debates the last few weeks that have happened towards aftal UK is this !!

Me and a few really good IN PERSON people in the UK joined so we can have an aliance like an AVENGERS ASSEMBLE type of thing were we can support if we need to go against fakers, I was doing this for many years with ACAF long before AFTAL was formed.

So it is very sad when you hear comments like aftal is corrupt etc, As I did not join to get attacked when I have done nothing wrong, Like I said we are all responcible for our actions we live behind a paper trail and people will eventually catch up to you if you are a bad guy, Thank god I am poor because I am Honest i decide to be honest and make loses at times as I can not go to sleep knowing I have stolen or took some ones dream and wrecked it , But I am not alone there are a Handfull of us that are like this , Problem is most of them are scared on coming here as this brings out arguments and attracts attention etc, But I have no choice as I have a family that i love and I work hard for so I need to stand up and be heard .

Your question is very tough but I do feel there will be changes soon as no one like to be branded when he is inocent, But the problem is you have 2 sides one says yes one says no , So untill a legal statement comes out so there is a concrete answer this thing will carry on and on and on so I also hope something happens soon not just you guys.

I can only comment on what I know like I said before am not an expert on Jacko and for Queen I have only got Roger and Brian 30 or more times not the rest so am not going to lie and take sides just for the sake of it.

Now back to the question lets wait and see what happens with Aftal , I think the problem is everyone has jobs and priorities outside aftal and this is a problem , what is needed is someone pationate and full time dedicated to the cause. I am not stirring up s*** I am just giving my humble opinion , And to explain what I mean is this I would not be on the board if asked because I hunt at list 5 days a week and I wont have the time needed to dedicate , Not only but my english is crap you would need a translator to make out what I said :-)

Guys Aftal has done a lot of good in the last few months it is a fact and Gary King is very dedicated he does a lot of s*** this industry the people that Know him will swear by that so I feel gary should be in any board at anytime. 

Let me finish by saying I am not taking sides and I am not saying who is right or wrong I am just sharing my thoughts this is all.

I know that this debates all start for a good reason but sometimes things go a little sideways but I hope in the end the right thing comes out of this subjects what ever the result is.

Jason Thanos

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on August 18, 2012 at 8:09am

I had summarized my comments on this in the original thread from my perspective.  btw, it's marc not mark.

What struck me as somewhat deceptive was an initial post by someone who identifies himself as Marc Mclennan Authenticateit Sport & Star Autograph AFTAL Founder & Board Member;

Queen Album RR Auction, Roger Epperson COA, good enough?   in response to; "...but does that look right to people that do...."

Cyrkin jumped the gun IMO by saying; so when you said it was sold by RRAuction and authenticated by Roger Epperson, I searched RR's archives and couldn't find it..    However, it was clearly evident that this implication was being made.

Marc then responds with this clarification;  Queen Album RR Auction, Roger Epperson COA, good enough? 
 Roger Epperson who authentcaites for RR, if you take a look back on RR past auctions and what roger has looked at, you will find comparisons that without doubt compare to the one on sale. a lot of the other items from that same collection come from RR.   what i was ex pressing would a Epperson COA be good enough?   i will send the item over to Roger tomorrow, and get back to you.

Of course the send over to Roger was apparently never done directly as it appears Cykin interceded.  What I find troubling is what would appear to be double talk & slight of hand.

More troubling is how fast AFTAL (the Board) seems to jump into the frey or as Marc indicated;

AFTAL later today will be posting a statement hopefully then we can all move on, in the mean time items that have been questioned have today been again examined and advice taken on the items. and then takes a bachhand slap at R&R sold items with;  The Queen album to which I wrongly quoted as being authenticated by Roger, my mistake, the item was closely examined against items Roger has deemed authentic in the past, and if he was to deem this item not to be authentic then I really would have concerns with Queen items that RR have sold in the past, but again I stand by the item and in my opinion feel it to be genuine, but until I have heard from Roger directly I have removed it from sale.

Of course a web of lies becomes a problem and entangled in ones own net as they forgot what they said... in this case marc up till this point never said it was authenticated by Roger but now he does, "to which I wrongly quoted as being authenticated by Roger, my mistake".   Thus Cyrkin made a correct conclusion.  Had that not been done then it is very likely the statements would have gone unchallenged so my belief is this individual was clearly fabricating a story.

Now as far as AFTAL jumping in (i had previously posted comments that it is apparent to me that this Board cannot distinguish between someone who is a dealer and someone who is also a board member) based on this Don Davies released statement I believe by Garry King, that have been made concerning one of our board members and his authenticating capabilities

Someone indicated "the boys club" and not in a positive way. It would appear on the surface to be an accurate statement.  Even stranger is I thought I read two added posts (since I commented on it in the autografica thread) from the "AFTAL Board" but oddly enough I don't seem to find them at this point.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 18, 2012 at 8:39am

DB ,

I asked Roger about the Queen album and other AuthenticateIt eBay music listings a good week before I knew about the ACAF discussion. So if it looked to you like I jumped the gun, that's why.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on August 18, 2012 at 9:09am

One can't help but notice how quickly the flamethrowing escalated thereafter only to be enjoined by "Board statements" (2 which seemingly have disappeared or I may need more coffee!).

Seems they have the same issues as many - making authentic calls based on what they see as "exemplars". 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on August 18, 2012 at 1:22pm

Im not so sure. I think a few know perfectly well what they are trying to sell on.

I dont really like it when people refer to AFTAL and all the associated sellers as one. AFTAL as an organistaion basically does what a small number of board members decide. There are some very good sellers on there I trust whole heartedly who are totally straight down the line and have zero say in any decision making. I think its not fair on them. There are also others I just wouldnt touch

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on August 18, 2012 at 1:42pm

Hello Guys

I have listed a statement from a UK dealer regarding AFTAL

I assume this puts the record straight ?

 Marc McLennan hasn't been involved with the AFTAL board for sometime and this appears to be yet another childish attempt using old news on an ACAF forum to keep raking up the crap in America because they aren't getting the verbal response they are hoping for.

Steve C , do you still think he is a high ranking member ?

Gary

 

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• …
• 6
• Next ›
• Page