Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Patricia Cibiak on August 13, 2015 at 9:44am

Dan, I have to take some issue with a couple of points you made there -- if Elvis' secretarial staff were all that good at mimicking his signature, we wouldn't have this thread to begin with -- the secretarial signings like the one that I started the thread with stand out like sore thumbs due to the all the discrepancies.  If anything, his secretaries really made no good effort to duplicate him at all... and likewise the Mafia guys.  Unless you're suggesting that pieces that have gotten authenticated by Epperson, PSA, and others over the years were so good even they were fooled (?)

And about the check ledgers -- I do see some noticeable similarities to Elvis' writing on those like Timothy did -- which begs the question:  If all these were were private check ledgers as opposed to checks that would pass through others' hands, what purpose would it serve one of his guys or a secretary to attempt to duplicate Elvis' writing on them?  I can't find the logic there.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on August 13, 2015 at 10:13am

Agree with the point about the ledger. Why would proxy signers painstakingly duplicate Presley's handwriting in a private check ledger? It makes no sense.

It seems to me that the ledger has to be authentic, or the whole thing is a total fabrication done by a forger. Not that I am suggesting that is the case, but those seem to be the only two plausible options.

On a related note, why would the proxy signers also have to replicate Presley's handwriting on the checks (except for the signature)? The bank certainly would not be scrutinizing the authenticity of the handwriting on the To and Amount lines.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Upside on August 13, 2015 at 10:37am

I understand your point,mand let me say that Elvis had several secretaries from 1956 to 1977.

I am not suggesting that all the individuals were perfect signers to experienced Elvis collectors, I and merely stating that to the untrained eye it is very difficult to tell the difference if done but certain members of Elviss entourage or secretaries.

Regarding the ledger I don't know if it was a ledger that was never used I don't know if it was a ledger that may have been annotated by Elvis at some point but what I do know is that having one would be as rare as hens teeth. I am not suggesting that this is a forgery by any means however without a proper in hand examination and seeing the entire contents of the ledger I would still be highly dubious of the inscriptions.

Anyone that has been involved seriously collecting Elvis Presley owned memorabilia understands the amount of forgeries that were committed by members of Elvis own entourage both during his life as well as after death. It is not uncommon for somebody who is close to Elvis and remain close to Vernon after elvis died to a ransack certain items and added additional inscriptions or signatures to try and boost its value. Sadly the market has been flooded with these items ever since the mid-1990s when the first rounds of Elvis themed auctions began. Over the years it's only become worse. Some by forgers, and some by those Elvis once befriended.

Over 26 years I've seen several items make their way from collectors hands to other hands always with slight alterations of the item. As an example there was a beautiful shirt of Elvis is from the 1950s that he innocently gave to a girl in Germany. I purchased a shirt directly from the woman and then later on several years later I sold it to another collector. When it left that collectors hands five years later suddenly it had not Only Elvis's signature but also an entire dedication on the shirt made out to her. That shirt later sold through Christie's auction house for a whopping $22,000.

A ledger, a checkbook and even blank checks/ stationary that were left over after Elvis had died have hit the market manipulated to boost their value. One member of the Memphis Mafia who will remain nameless was very good at forging Elvis signatures and handwritten notes on original TCB stationery that was left over after all Elvis passed. If you follow the market closely you will see many TCB stationery's popping up or documents that read from the desk of Elvis Presley which contain hand written notes poems set list and signatures. My estimation is at 98% of them are pure forgeries done well after Elvis passed.

Truth in point Elvis seldom wrote letters he seldom wrote notes he hardly ever doodle if ever and when he did do something of that nature it was because he was passionate about what he was writing. There are very few original examples of Elvis letters as well as a few set list and some notes that he may have written to Parker or to a member of the Memphis Mafia. But they are far and few between and seldom ever ever hit the market.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on August 13, 2015 at 10:42am

Dan, thanks for the insight and detailed response. Much appreciated. I have no horse in this race either way... Just making an observation.

In any case, this is a great thread with terrific information.

One of these days I'm going to have to pony up and get a signature from the king for my collection. I'll be sure to do my homework first! :-)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Timothy on August 13, 2015 at 11:09am

This is only few similarities which I see with letter to Nixon. Also there similarities with "p", "S", "c", "te". I really got confused with this checkbook...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 13, 2015 at 11:25am

Timothy,

Great work on the comparisons to the Nixon letter!

I was reading the link you posted to the auction lot listing for the checkbook you bought, and nowhere did I find that it said the check stubs were filled out by Elvis. It's quite possible that some were and some weren't. The two you posted don't look the same to me.

So I don't think this lot was misrepresented in last year's auction, whether Elvis filled out none, some or all.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Timothy on August 13, 2015 at 11:44am

Steve,

Thank you! But I don't bought checkbook, I have only one stub from this checkbook :) Anyway thanks for your opinion! It's hard to understand, but we will never know truth about it. I think my stub have a chance 1/3 to be a real thing (authentic / very good fake / or it was made by someone from Memphis Mafia). Unfortunately, no one can say for sure.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Chad B on August 13, 2015 at 12:35pm

http://news.yahoo.com/more-170-elvis-artifacts-auctioned-graceland-...

The items are still being promoted by some media sources.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Patricia Cibiak on August 14, 2015 at 6:26am

Now as the auction has apparently closed down, here's a look at what the remaining --and more likely, legitimate autograph pieces went for:

https://auction.graceland.com/Category/Autographs-15.html

And a number of them going well in excess of what had been the estimated value.

The primary auction page with all categories--

http://auction.graceland.com/catalog.aspx

There was one item that may be of special interest to some here -  a 1956 airline counter check, filled out by Elvis:

http://auction.graceland.com/1956_Elvis_Presley_Signed_American_Air...

I would assume that in March of '56, this would have been well before Elvis really had anyone else he could rely on to proxy sign things for him, and is much more likely to be his own writing.  He was still years away from being surrounded by the Mafia guys and other hangers-on.  Worth noting for comparison how his "E.A. Presley" synchs up with his later 1960's and 1970's personal checks.  He appears to have developed early on a check writing style that really doesn't resemble much else - be it autographs, documents, or even the Nixon letter.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Viola on August 14, 2015 at 7:57am

And lets not forget the buyers fee they tack on the final price.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on August 14, 2015 at 8:02am

The whole thing had me shaking my head and really made Graceland look not so smart in my book.

Mark

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Timothy on August 14, 2015 at 10:58am

Patricia,
And how we can to trust to Auction at Graceland if they sold several "strange" autographs (thanks God that they deleted some of those autographs before auction start). Terrible situation.

About Elvis's writing.
I just want to say that his writing with 70's became worse. Letter to Nixon - this is one of the worse writing which I ever see in my life [please forgive me Elvis] :) The problem of authentication Elvis's is the really bad his writing. We know that letter to Nixon is an authentic letter (nice sample). Elvis had many ways to write the same "P", "G", or any other letter. Because of this reason we have so many Elvis's fakes, strange signatures and ect. And many people really don't know the real Elvis's handwriting (and I guess I'm too). But we just trying to figure out something.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• Next ›
• Page