Authenticity is Everything
Your Input Needed: Autographed Sports Photos From Taiwan, China, Thailand and Japan
For now, and this is just a very small tip of of the iceberg that I have been working on from the Orient.
Please examine and review these auctions including the completed and the feedback.
The first question I would ask is how is a seller from Japan getting all these American sports figures?
That aside, the signatures are pretty deceptive assuming they are bad. I am familiar with a handful of them, and they would not strike me as bad at first glance. Like, who is going to fake a Bob Gibson or Ozzie Smith or Johnny Damon? Seriously?
Do you think these are machine signed based on templates created from authentic signatures? Do you have any in-hand to examine? If so, do they demonstrate any sort of minute wobble like an Autopen?
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Reply by Michael Frost
No, I do not believe an autopen to be involved with these signed photos.
Reply by Anthony Bautista
- No problem Mike. I just was curious as to what company was authenticating them. You can read over any of my post and you can see I am not for one authentication , nor against any authentication .
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Reply by Michael Frost- It has only been 5 hours since my last post and I already have 2 angry messages on my voice mail and one mad man e-mail. It seems I already have a major auction company pissed off at me, because they are supplied by the Orient express. I have an autograph authenticator telling me I do not know what I am talking about !!. Claiming that most of the autographs being sold that I posted are 100% authentic and I am just trying to use Steve Cyrkin and AML to promote my company. I was also told that I was going to be reported to eBay for saying there are 1000's of fake autographs coming from China & Japan listed on ebay. Last but not least I have been told via email that I just made up this whole story and this just an isolated incident and not forgery ring. "I am a liar and nobody will believe a thing I say" "Just notice how there is no participation or interest in your comments. Chris Williams and many of the regulars will not take part in anything you say and will not comment because it will seem as if they support you & P.A.A.S.I knew this was going to happen and I have not even reported a fraction of what is really been going on with this group from Japan, China and Thailand.
* Steve Cyrkin could confirm that I have discussed and have showed him some examples of this investigation back in mid October.
* I have also expressed to Steve on more then one occasion that I did not care to, or want to expose nor discredit any other 3rd party authenticators.
* This is not an isolated incident and these signed photos are being mass produced and being sold by many dealers on the Internet.
* I really should have waited until I was fully prepared to start this discussion and I should have maybe discussed it with some of the other autograph authentication companies prior to posting.
I was asked on the post by Mr. Zipper about counterfeits coming from China. I honestly was planning to get at least a small part of the word out before more collectors purchase these fake signatures.
Last, since this was only an isolated incident and not a ring so I have been told. Here is two more small member of this ring to review. Please look at completed items also.
Reply by Steve Cyrkin
Everyone:
Mike Frost is doing very important work here that could save collectors millions of dollars a year. Please discuss these autographs with Mike, and presuming you agree that they are forgeries, spread the word and show collectors, sellers and eBay EMRs what to look out for. Expose the forgeries and those who knowingly sell and authenticate them.
Mike, as expected, you're taking a lot of heat for this. You have gratitude.
Steve
Reply by Mr Zipper
- They seem to be football, basketball and hockey at this point. Not signatures I am familiar with.
But there are certainly suspect patterns. Foreign sellers with only American stars. Same names over and over again. All signatures perfect sitting down "neat." Signed in best spot on photo. Where are the messy ones in the dark area?
Keep up the good work, Mike and don't let scummy, anonymous haters get you down.
From China we are getting hit with Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Peyton Manning, Wayne Gretzky, Bo Jackson, Cal Ripken, Joe Namath and other big names.
You mean a forgery ring separate from the Florida ring? Do you have any examples of the above to share? Just wondering if they are the same ones I have seen previously or something new.
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Reply by Michael Frost
Yes, There is a big big problem coming out of China, I have been working on this problem for the past 6 months. Only problem is this is going to be embarrassing to many autograph experts and autograph authenticators. These are so well done and are the best quality paper that they could fool almost anyone especially when you are submitted one or two at a time. But once you receive 20-40 of each image a lot has been discovered.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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Are these hand signed or created by some sort of mechanical or transfer process?
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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Is that a real JSA sticker on this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JORDY-NELSON-PACKERS-SIGNED-AUTO-8X10-PHOTO...
I looked through the Packers stuff, and I'd agree that they are actually fairly well done. If these are fakes, they're better than 95% of what I see on ebay. The most flawed looking ones I'm seeing are the Clay Matthews and James Starks, but even those look fairly competently done.
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That is the JSA Stamp of Approval hologram reserved for low value items. You can read more about it here: http://www.spenceloa.com/article.aspx?Arno=5
The question is are they salting with good material or slipping some by the TPAs?
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Good question . . . I'd love to hear there stories on where they got this stuff. Certainly wasn't training camp. The problem is, that many of these sports signers have such simplistic signatures, it's not like it's really a huge undertaking to pull off a close forgery.
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Permalink Reply by Sports n Stuff on
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Rich why couldn't you get him at training camp? They ride kids(fans) bikes from the stadium to the practice field a block a way!
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You can get get Nelson at training camp I'm sure. However, if I recall the circumstances, that did not look look something that was obtained at training camp. The auction is long over, so it's hard to recall exactly what I was looking at.
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Gotcha
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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The real questions are:
- Why don't authentication companies image every autograph they certify and make them available online?
- Why would JSA offer an unnumbered sticker in the first place, which makes duplicating them to defraud collectors way too easy?
Authentication companies need to remember that collectors depend on them. Their responsibility is to the collector, the buyer—not the dealer. Collectors are the ones that get stuck with their mistakes and shortcuts.
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Agreed. Even that's even a real type of JSA sticker, then I've lost even more respect for them.
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Maybe blanks are going out the back door? Never know
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Permalink Reply by Dane on
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No. JSA had a program (that's now been discontinued, since they realize how much of a mistake it was in the first place) called "Stamp of Approval" which applied solely to flats under 8"x10" and valued less than $20. Steve Zarelli explained about it above your other post.
If you ever see the sticker on anything but a flat, it's non-authentic. That's the long & short of it. I would assume the same logic would apply to any item larger than 8x10.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on
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I think the Jsa stickers are fake , Ive come across a few fake ones. There is one problem with the ones the person is putting up , I wont say what it is . Cause Im sure they will fix it after it is mentioned.
Also Frost , At one time did you Cert a bunch of these photos ?
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