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Your Input Needed: Autographed Sports Photos From Taiwan, China, Thailand and Japan

Thousands of signed photos are coming out of Taiwan, China, Thailand and Japan. They're selling on eBay for anywhere from $30-$80 each with free shipping to the U.S.
 
Many of these questionable signed photos have stickers from well-known 3rd party authentication companies. These sellers specialize in Sports autographs: mainly Football, Hockey, Basketball, Tennis and Baseball (during the season).
 
There are 13 sellers that I have been monitoring all selling the same material, images and signatures.
 
I had posted three of the sellers names with links yesterday, and as I thought they would, today all of the sellers removed a large part of their inventory. At this time it looks as if they have only left up the signed photos that have authentication stickers on them.
 
The problem is that these sellers change names and locations and are difficult to follow, being that they are not located in the United States.
 
The Sellers in question obviously read and follow AML, or they are in contact with someone that reads AML because they are now aware of my reports and investigation. I am already receiving harassing emails and phone calls and I am sure there will be many more.
 
This is a major problem that deals not only with forgeries, but autograph authenticators and auction and dealer websites that have been calling these products authentic. It is much larger then most will ever believe and I will show examples of these products in the near future. There is also a link with many non authentic modern celebrity signed photos being produced and sold here in the US but I am still working on those submissions.
 
 
 
 
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Reply by Mr Zipper yesterday

For now, and this is just a very small tip of of the iceberg that I have been working on from the Orient.
Please examine and review these auctions including the completed and the feedback.

Click here: gemmintsportsinc | eBay

The first question I would ask is how is a seller from Japan getting all these American sports figures?

That aside, the signatures are pretty deceptive assuming they are bad. I am familiar with a handful of them, and they would not strike me as bad at first glance. Like, who is going to fake a Bob Gibson or Ozzie Smith or Johnny Damon? Seriously?

Do you think these are machine signed based on templates created from authentic signatures? Do you have any in-hand to examine? If so, do they demonstrate any sort of minute wobble like an Autopen?

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Reply by Michael Frost yesterday

No, I do not believe an autopen to be involved with these signed photos.

You ask the same thing I did about Gibson, Carlton, Rose. Ozzie Smith, George Brett.?
I have physically examined many of these photos and I was able to see there was a problem. I have had over 1000 in my hands at one time.
There are almost 15 accounts that I am sure of selling these signed photos and also a big wholesale business going on.
Even at $20 each , I would think they are selling over 5000 of each per year. They have over 100 different names being done. They also have the bigger names like Jordan, Woods, Tyson, Bird , Namath, and now going into entertainment.
Millions..$$
 
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 Reply by terrier8HOF yesterday
I just checked a few of the ones I am very familiar with. They range from fair to poor but they are definitely forgeries.
 Reply by Anthony Bautista yesterday
No problem Mike. I just was curious as to what company was authenticating them. You can read over any of my post and you can see I am not for one authentication , nor against any authentication .

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Reply by Michael Frost yesterday
 
 It has only been 5 hours since my last post and I already have 2 angry messages on my voice mail and one mad man e-mail. It seems I already have a major auction company pissed off at me, because they are supplied by the Orient express. I have an autograph authenticator telling me I do not know what I am talking about !!. Claiming that most of the autographs being sold that I posted are 100% authentic and I am just trying to use Steve Cyrkin and AML to promote my company. I was also told that I was going to be reported to eBay for saying there are 1000's of fake autographs coming from China & Japan listed on ebay. Last but not least I have been told via email that I just made up this whole story and this just an isolated incident and not forgery ring. "I am a liar and nobody will believe a thing I say" "Just notice how there is no participation or interest in your comments. Chris Williams and many of the regulars will not take part in anything you say and will not comment because it will seem as if they support you & P.A.A.S. 
 
I knew this was going to happen and I have not even reported a fraction of what is really been going on with this group from Japan, China and Thailand.
 

* Steve Cyrkin could confirm that I have discussed and have showed him some examples of this investigation back in mid October.
* I have also expressed to Steve on more then one occasion that I did not care to, or want to expose nor discredit any other 3rd party authenticators.
* This is not an isolated incident and these signed photos are being mass produced and being sold by many dealers on the Internet.
* I really should have waited until I was fully prepared to start this discussion and I should have maybe discussed it with some of the other autograph authentication companies prior to posting.
I was asked on the post by Mr. Zipper about counterfeits coming from China. I honestly was planning to get at least a small part of the word out before more collectors purchase these fake signatures.
Last, since this was only an isolated incident and not a ring so I have been told. Here is two more small member of this ring to review. Please look at completed items also.

 
 
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Reply by Steve Cyrkin yesterday

Everyone:

Mike Frost is doing very important work here that could save collectors millions of dollars a year. Please discuss these autographs with Mike, and presuming you agree that they are forgeries, spread the word and show collectors, sellers and eBay EMRs what to look out for. Expose the forgeries and those who knowingly sell and authenticate them. 

Mike, as expected, you're taking a lot of heat for this. You have gratitude. 

Steve

Reply by Mr Zipper 19 hours ago

 

They seem to be football, basketball and hockey at this point. Not signatures I am familiar with.

But there are certainly suspect patterns. Foreign sellers with only American stars. Same names over and over again. All signatures perfect sitting down "neat." Signed in best spot on photo. Where are the messy ones in the dark area?

Keep up the good work, Mike and don't let scummy, anonymous haters get you down.
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 Reply by Mr Zipper yesterday

From China we are getting hit with Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Peyton Manning, Wayne Gretzky, Bo Jackson, Cal Ripken, Joe Namath and other big names.

You mean a forgery ring separate from the Florida ring? Do you have any examples of the above to share? Just wondering if they are the same ones I have seen previously or something new.

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 Reply by Michael Frost yesterday

 

Yes, There is a big big problem coming out of China, I have been working on this problem for the past 6 months. Only problem is this is going to be embarrassing to many autograph experts and autograph authenticators. These are so well done and are the best quality paper that they could fool almost anyone especially when you are submitted one or two at a time. But once you receive 20-40 of each image a lot has been discovered. 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 1, 2013 at 1:10pm

Very scary. Here is another one. EBAY seller:   bnbcardsncollectibles

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=...

Item location in description is Macau(China) but the sellers feedback page says Japan.

Here is one of their photos. I dont believe this is authentic but looks pretty close. Much closer than some of the horrible signatures I've seen some 3rd party authenticators pass.

 

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on January 1, 2013 at 1:15pm

And look at the buyers' feedback. That's all they seem to care about is the fast shipping. Ugh.

Permalink Reply by Rich on January 1, 2013 at 1:17pm

Let's see, Marino charges about $99 minimum, and Manning is well over $200.  And we get it for half price?  Wow, how generous.  And zero authentication.  Seems legit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peyton-Manning-Dan-Marino-Signed-autograph-...

Since SB 45, Charles Woodson has been the most expensive autograph on the team (yes, typically more than even Rodgers).  He doesn't do many signings, and the most recent ones I've seen he's been charging well in excess of $200.  This price of $69.99 is flat out incriminating.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Charles-Woodson-Signed-autograph-8X10-Photo...

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 1, 2013 at 1:27pm

EBAY buyers only care about fast shipping and a bargain. Would probably still buy the junk if the seller claimed the athlete signed it in chinese.

Permalink Reply by Sports n Stuff on February 7, 2015 at 4:15pm
Lol, that's so true. Do many people read feedback, etc before buying? I mentioned this on another thread but had a guy threaten to kill me over a $3 card for leaving him positive feedback but the truth in verbiage for future buyers.
Permalink Reply by Pinchak on January 16, 2013 at 6:56pm

Don't trust anything from China.

Permalink Reply by geraldzheng on July 6, 2013 at 5:11am

I am Chinese. Hi guy maybe some misunderstand for china.yep,there are many fake product on china market.but if you are covet little advantages,it will make danger to buy fake or poor quality in china.

I can told U that iphone,nike,addidas,LV they are production in china.I can say 100%, there are many product you are using from China.I think there are some "bad mouse"in here.

I think same situation as US.you can said US are 100% real product without fake?

Why I choose to buy product from ebay?because I think US product is good,I was suprised that there are many auto photo,I bought from ebay are fake.so I can say I don't trust anything from US.

The answer is NO.because "bad mouse"you can find anywhere.I only to said if we want to buy good product,we will choose UDA,PANINI,PSA,JSA.

I can told you these fake all come from US.because I have contact this company before.Please note this.

Permalink Reply by Sports n Stuff on February 7, 2015 at 4:19pm
I mean fakes can come from anywhere.....what isn't made in china is made in India or somewhere else. You make a good point that stuff can and is fake from here as well! So good counter!
Permalink Reply by Sports n Stuff on February 7, 2015 at 4:16pm
Period I don't even like buying cards from there. Everything is faked over there.
Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on January 17, 2013 at 5:33pm

It appears that every seller outed in this thread has shut down their listings. If that is not the sign of something shady going on, I don't know what is.

Has anyone found their new accounts yet?

Permalink Reply by geraldzheng on July 6, 2013 at 1:45am

hi Michael this is gerald.I am from China.I think all photos are made in US.because china only popular in basketball.we have not so many condition to do this.As fas as I know Chinese only can made fake photo.but fake autograph is can't to do by Chinese people.in my opinion,they import from US.

Because I have tried to buy these photos before,they said to me 100% pass PSA.company name:LF SPORTS MEMORABILIA   web:http://lfsmem.com/

I have contact with LF sport before,they offer a seller in taiwan,So I contact with him.he told me that some photos sell to Japan and US.

So all auto photos in china,Hongkong and Taiwan are from this company.

I think all fake come from LF sports.

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on December 28, 2013 at 9:22am

There are many fakes coming from everywhere. As we know some in china are masters at "knock offs". And many talented artists who could closely replicate signatures. Be careful out there.

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