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Authenticity is Everything
Beatles full signed color photo
Hello,
I bought this a few days ago in an auction.
It is an full color intact pull-out photo included in an 1964 UK-magazine called „Scream“.
I‘m very interested to know what you think about it, thank you.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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What about these?
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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All of this. Oh my.
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I agree, the look very similar to me.
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Permalink Reply by conker on
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I don't know if I like either set here.
Something else that jumps out to me is Paul on the Pepper has the "l" perfectly ending on the "t" and the end of the "y" is obscured by the hair.
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on
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The comparisons that Ballroom and Steve have posted are interesting to say the least but I must admit that I'm getting a little punch drunk.
Playing devil's advocate, I guess you could say that if the autographs are from the same period it is not unreasonable that they look similar in some cases. Whether all four would be so similar is another matter.
I know some people say "it's all in the ink" but I think having some kind of provenance is pretty important too, especially for such "perfect" and "big ticket" sets. The complete absence of provenance for the OP set and the MTB sets is what would put me off them the most.
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Permalink Reply by Trazom1 on
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Perhaps I’m missing something, but the discussion seems grossly unfair, and a terrible disservice to the new owner.
The thread started out something like “wow…what an amazing group of genuine autographs…and in such spectacular condition!” and ended up as “I wouldn’t want it” …simply because it is so beautifully preserved and didn’t have an associated story.
Some have asked why the selling price was “only” fifteen thousand dollars (!)…but this is entirely within the normal range expected for a fully signed magazine spread sold at auction. It was a great price, but by no means a red flag.
I guess that if it had condition issues no one would have questioned it. Steve Cyrkin posted images of the signatures from the Sgt.Pepper gatefold sold at Heritage for $290,500 in 2013. It was also in spectacular condition, with ideally placed signatures, but no one questioned its authenticity, despite the fact that it had no supporting provenance! What it did have was a letter from Frank Caiazzo. I have no doubt about the authenticity of that item, and I’d be very surprised if the magazine spread under discussion was fake.
I expect signatures of an individual from a common period to be very similar to one another. If they were superimposable, that would be a red flag…but “very similar” is a positive sign, of course, and in no way a red flag!
The magazine spread was a perfect item for signing, providing large spaces for the members of the band to place their signatures.
Not every real item in any area of collecting has a long-documented history…and a very small number will survive in glorious condition. This is also entirely normal and to be expected! If any of you are also collectors of coins, books, or historical manuscripts you will know what I mean.
Congratulations to the new owner for an outstanding purchase!
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Permalink Reply by MrKite1970 on
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Great statement, thanks a lot for that and the congratulations.
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Trazom1,
That is an excellent post. One or many members of this discussion may decide that one or more of the items is likely real. But discussion is important.
Machine-produced forgeries are out there, perhaps not signed with a pen, but it's very likely we don't know all the methods. I believe Ballroom has shown some pickguards with McCartney "High in the Clouds" signatures on the surface where a pickguard looks just like one on a US edition of the book. That means that a copy of the image was transferred to the pickguard.
And no one in this discussion is a professional authenticator, although Ballroom has what it takes in a number of rock artists. But the authenticators would generally want to see it in person for a full authentication.
My advice always is to generally not to buy anything there's a question among experts on. A great forger can often get away with forging for years before they're discovered.
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You make your points very well Trazom1 and you may be right that the OP autographs are OK. They are certainly not atypical. In fact, the quality of them is what makes me and other people skeptical, particularly when two other "perfect" and consistent sets in great condition surface at about the same time. Really good provenance is not always available but it seems strange that none of the three sets in question has any provenance or backstory at all.
I presume the OP magazine could be auctioned again given the COAs it has and maybe Mr. Kite could actually make a big profit, as the MTB buyer seems to have done.
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Permalink Reply by Thorsten Knublauch on
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frightening....
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It was said that the opportunity to return is akin to a "get out of jail" free card. If being in jail means you can't do what you want, then perhaps it is a reasonable analogy. What one would want here is to either know they are real or know they are not. Is that possible? If the set is retained, more information than already presented may come to light. It is a gamble when opinions can change. If the set is refunded, the outcome can be "banked on" is as much as funds will be returned. In no other scenario is that certain. The set has issues that have brought many to make several observations. Many are salient. It has been noted that is is highly unusual for such a return offer in this context. The response sent to Mr.Kite appeared to imply they are authentic, or at least "extremely good forgeries" (although they were never examined in hand IIRC), before or after saying it was now refundable - that is an odd statement. Why not "just return it"?
What is more likely? Unusual high end perfectly preserved item with three correct LOA's is returned when is clearly states it can't be in the Terms; this departure is noteworthy. Or, a potentially problematic item with questions around it? Which have we seen more of before? It is how I would try to work this equation. Everyone makes mistakes - it is a series of mistakes that can really get you down. As this set has apparently not been sent, it appears Mr.Kite will have to decide without an in hand observation? That would certainly not be good if so. I doubt a return without the papers required in the Terms. There are several sets of very good experienced eyes here and I would have to listen to what they are saying.
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