Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nick on February 23, 2022 at 2:27pm

Roger responded very quickly. He believes the GHRR piece is not authentic. 

after I emailed him the link to the GHRR item and asked if that changed his opinion of my item he responded:

”This one is not authentic in my opinion but yours is”

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on February 23, 2022 at 2:38pm

That’s interesting. As I mentioned before, the other one looks more naturally written to me, and without the letter formation issues and misspelling of “when.” It seems odd that yours would be the original. Someone paid about $12.5K including the buyer’s premium for the other one, assuming it actually sold at that price.

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Permalink Reply by Nick on February 23, 2022 at 2:44pm

Hi ballroom, 

I hear you and I truly do appreciate your opinions on this as I work to get to the bottom of it. Hope this doesn’t come across as cruel, but I’ve been researching the trustworthiness of Gotta Have Rock and Roll auctions and I am finding many complaints of forgeries, or questionable items as well as other shady business dealings. One the first Google search results that I came across when searching “is Gotta Have Rock and Roll auctions authentication trustworthy” was an Autograph Live discussion where you pointed out that GHRR is not trustworthy.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/gotta-have-rock-and...

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on February 23, 2022 at 2:52pm

I mentioned one particular item in that discussion. They certainty aren’t perfect, but they’ve had many authentic items in their auctions. 

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Permalink Reply by Nick on February 23, 2022 at 2:56pm

That makes sense. However your explanation of their response to you seemed pretty alarming (quote from your post below). Additionally many others shared concerns and even lawsuits filed and won against GHRR. Again, I am no autograph expert but it seems a quick search online reveals many concerns about GHRR and specifically authentication claims from GHRR. 

This was the first and last time I contacted them with authenticity concerns.

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/The_Doors_Signed_1968_Elektra_...

The reply I received was fairly lengthy and absolutely incredible in its inaccuracy. I was basically told that the contract in the auction was "100% genuine", and the authentic contract that was used as a template to forge the signatures on that contract appeared to be the forgery. It didn't sell, but was consigned shortly thereafter to another auction house where it was removed from sale after it was proven to be a fake.

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Permalink Reply by Stepeanut on February 23, 2022 at 2:59pm

Nick,

To answer your question, I don’t believe any tracing of signatures was involved here.  But I do believe one was copied from the other.  Which I cannot say because the provenance of both signatures is unknown to me.

Unlike Ballroom, I don’t have a strong feeling for one over the other.  As you know, I was initially taken with yours, and I still believe it has a chance to be real.  Roger’s authentication goes a long way to supporting that theory, but it’s not the be all and end all.  I’m glad, though, that he has at least seen both signatures and weighed them together.

You might want to ask Jeff Gold’s opinion, also.  I know Jeff — I’ve bought several items from him — and he’s very approachable.  He’s also very good with Dylan’s handwriting.  If you had both Roger and Jeff’s support for your signature, that would carry a great deal of weight.

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Permalink Reply by Nick on February 23, 2022 at 3:03pm

Thank you for responding to my tracing question. That’s really helpful. 

I would love to ask Jeff Gold for his opinion. Should I submit an inquiry through the form on his website or is there another way to reach him?

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on February 23, 2022 at 3:15pm

Nick’s is actually missing traits that are present in the GHRR example. The signature includes the upstroke to begin the “Y” that I’ve seen with authentic Dylan signatures. If one was copied from the other and Nick’s is real, this would mean that the forger attempted to differentiate the two by using an authentic trait not present on the original. Another example is that “moonlight” contains a complete “N” on the GHRR example, while it’s an odd crescent shape on Nick’s example.

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Permalink Reply by Nick on February 23, 2022 at 4:14pm

Thank you, ballroom. I continue welcome other opinions too!

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Permalink Reply by Hyacinth House on March 5, 2022 at 8:21am

Hi Nick. Just a quick observation and comment. I have followed this thread and I am by no means an expert on Dylan but I am inclined to agree with BallroomDays67. In fact, BallroomDays67 not only has a very keen eye for signature traits, he also has an uncanny ability to recall items of a similar ilk from previous offerings. I cannot praise BallroomDays67 highly enough and I personally place my deepest respect and acceptance of his appraisals. This is my two pence worth. 
Good luck 

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