Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joshua Swickey on April 9, 2014 at 8:00pm

I am the person that bought this item from collectiblecentral2. I found your post today after I was researching "mightie mikes animation." The more I looked at the COA that came with the picture, the more it made me feel uneasy. I couldn't find anything about "mightie mikes animation", but after some research, it led me to this post. And of course I'm as shocked as ever to read what u posted because I am the person that bought this item for $181.38. I have already got in contact with eBay and the seller. I am returning it for a full refund even though collectiblecentral2 insists that the signature and the COA is authentic. He said he stands by his 100% seller rating. Still after reading this, I'd feel better if I just got my money back... But listen, I realize I should have paid more attention to the COA before I bought it. I get it. I understand. And obviosly after reading this I feel like a fool, but I'm not some "wannabe autograph collector" who should know better. I don't know much about about sports memorabilia, and I don't have the knowledge about the industry and how pieces are authenticated. I just wanted to get something cool for my dad because he's always been a fan of Mickey Mantle, so I took the COA for what it was. Plus collectiblecentral2 does indeed have over 167 positive feedback comments and zero negative comments. That also played a part as to why I purchased this item. The point I'm trying to make is that yes, I got fooled, but I'm not in idiot. There are a lot of smart educated people that get fooled all the time in many different ways. I'm just one of many.. I was a little offended after being called a "wannabe autograph collector" when that isn't the case.i just wanted to get something cool for my dad and got burned.... but hey you live, you learn. & u move forward. At least I'm gettin my money back...

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Permalink Reply by Mike Kaminski on April 9, 2014 at 8:07pm

Good thing is for $181 you can get a nice authentic Mantle.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on April 10, 2014 at 2:45am

Thank you for dropping in to let us know they are giving you a refund. 

Sorry you got burned, it happens to a lot of very good people.

If you find another Mantle that you like, or if you need help on one, please just ask (you can post a discussion in the forum area).  The folks here are very passionate about not having people being ripped off by forgeries.  They'd be happy to help you out. 

Wascher-moderator

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 10, 2014 at 3:47am

Joshua, I am very happy you are getting your money back.

It's not about the "COA," it's about the autograph.

It's not about a seller's Feedback Rating.  We have seen hundreds of sellers of forgeries with over 2,000 transactions with 100% Positive Feedback and every autograph they sold was/is a forgery.

Unfortunately, sellers of forgeries know that Ebay is the best venue to sell their forgeries.  

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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on April 10, 2014 at 7:18am

Nice Job Joshua seeking out answers and getting your money back for the pathetic forgery this jerky seller insists is real. He is an obvious Moron.

Learn a little bit about the signature first and then jump into the waters. You can find one easy enough. Also, nice job being proactive and getting your money back. Many Many forgeries are sold by sellers with 100% feedback. Some are crooks and some are just dummies that were taken themselves. Guys with names like  Collectiblecentral2 should know a dime store copy like the one you purchased, but sadly they do not.

Here's a real one with the same pose for reference. Compare it to the mess you bought. You can see the autograph isn't even close.

I'll sell this one to you for a mere $250.00 LOL. At least is't real !!!! Great job again on the refund, good luck!

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 10, 2014 at 12:56pm

Fudd I love this mantle!

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on April 10, 2014 at 8:35am

The rating system on EBAY is deceiving. It has more to do with fast shipping and fancy packaging then it does with autograph authentication. So this guy ships forgeries fast and in fancy envelopes.

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Permalink Reply by James McCay on December 23, 2018 at 10:02am

Joshua, I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but while everyone else is kissing butt. YOU ARE WANNABE AUTOGRAPH COLLECTOR or you would have known better than to buy ANY AUTOGRAPH with a COA you cannot trace right back to the person that created it, and you can contact him/her TODAY! If not the autograph is WORTHLESS, period.

To trained experts, if you are confident enough by questioning the seller, and by examining the pictures of the autograph(s); take your chances. But then don't complain afterwards because then ONLY YOU are to blame. The blame in buying FORGERIES needs to go EVERYWHERE it deserves to go. Saying that the COA means nothing is ignorant! It's the EASIEST way to prove that the autograph IS NOT WORTH BUYING! If you look up the company name, or seller's name with the word "FORGERY" on Google, then lots of links pop up bashing this seller for selling FORGERIES; you've got your answer! Don't you? 

I'm a fully trained Forensic Document Examiner since 1999, and bust forgery sellers daily on eBay even though I have Advanced Myasthenia Gravis with Hyperthymusism (no meds work right or at all!), Degenerative Disc Disease and Fibromyalgia. I'm in severe pain 24/7. I've been homebound & mostly bedridden since 2009. 

Back to the issue...

YOU SHOULD NEVER BUY AUTOGRAPHS ON EBAY unless they are On Card Certified Autograph Inserts (CAI's) obtained & released by BIG well known card companies like TOPPS (generally 2005 on back are best). These are all I've collected since 1999 and NOT ONE in my collection was a forgery (out of tens of thousands).

I personally caught two of the only four known instances (out of so many thousands) where 10% or more of the entire CAI print run were forgeries: 1997 Upper Deck Football Legends Donnie Shell (2/3'rds were signed by a woman) and 1995 Press Pass VIP Larry Pearson NASCAR BUM Driver (his father was HOF NASCAR icon David Pearson) and Larry signed only half of his cards. All in all 99.99% of CAI'S are Authentic. Want more proof? Ask PSA/DNA and JSA how many CAI's have 10% or more of the print run that are FORGERIES. THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE DONNIE SHELL OR LARRY PEARSON FORGERIES???

I just busted an eBay seller today selling a Jose Canseco lithograph with one of the worst Canseco forgeries I've ever seen. The COA was from Mail Order Concepts (ring a bell with anyone?). It should, this is one of TIM FLATT'S three, nothing but forgery autograph Mail Order businesses from Oklahoma City, OK from 1996-1998, when I stopped him by 1999. In 1998 he was using three different company names all selling the same forgeries. The most disgusting part is that he got his mail order address list from the tens of thousands of Signature Rookies autographs he OWED TO PEOPLE due to him bankrupting SIGNATURE ROOKIES (then the court made everyone owed these autographs unsecured creditors which meant they'd get nothing). Next he sent a letter to many people HIDING BEHIND THE BIBLE stating he would send three times the number of autographs he owed them from Signature Rookies. Needless to say no one received anything. I tracked him down again in 2001 (and scared the life out of him) so he sent me an Allen Iverson "autographed" basketball and two Iverson "auto" 8X10's. I gave them away telling the person they are most likely forgeries. 

THIS IS WHY I FOUGHT SO HARD TO KEEP THE SAME THING FROM HAPPENING WITH THE SCORE BOARD BANKRUPTCY IN 1998 (but the same thing happened anyway but at least Fleer heard about my fight and donated 5,000 certified autos to those waiting for SB redemption autos they'd never get) WHICH WAS WRITTEN ABOUT IN BECKETT BASKETBALL #98 (dual Jordan covers; SIX SHOOTER) on the Last Page by Al Muir.   

You cannot state that an autograph is authentic from just a picture. However, you can tell a bad FORGERY from just a picture. Unless you have years of specific pattern recognition training, you can NEVER say "it looks like other autographs of the player so it must be good". That's just plain STUPIDITY! 

I often ask sellers of single loose "autographed" cards "What's the where, how, and when these autographs were signed (PROVENANCE)?". 90% of eBay sellers give the SAME RESPONSE: "I bought them them in one huge lot from a big dealer who went out of business." or something very similar. That's a GUARANTEE that YOU SHOULD NOT BUY ANY OF THEIR AUTOGRAPHS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! With no provenance (the story that goes with every autograph truly obtained in-person) is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT when thinking of buying an autograph if you feel you MUST buy an autograph from eBay or similar online sites. Plus you need exceptional instincts and search abilities to research their story. If every detail checks out, it's up to you. But I still DO NOT RECOMMEND doing this!    

Anyone collecting autographs first needs to read OPERATION BULLPEN by Kevin Nelson. Then they need to read CARD SHARKS by Pete Williams. Both can be found cheap on Amazon used & both are soft cover.

James McCay aka Cardcop

Please contact me with any questions, I'll help FOR FREE whenever I can.

cardcop04 at gmail

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 23, 2018 at 10:11am

Did you just reply to a 4 year old post? Better late then never I guess.

”Anyone collecting autographs first needs to read OPERATION BULLPEN by Kevin Nelson. Then they need to read CARD SHARKS by Pete Williams. Both can be found cheap on Amazon used & both are soft cover.”

Weren't you supposedly trained by the Operations Forensic Document Examiner of choice? Make sure you let everyone know that you think Frangiapani was a great authenticator and you learned from him.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on December 23, 2018 at 11:01am

You really have that caps usage nailed down to a fine art.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 23, 2018 at 12:19pm

Jim, do not demean other members.

You can argue your positions all you want, maintain ones others do not agree with. That's all A-OK here. But treat people with respect, even if they are brand new and inexperienced.

Getting burned on forgeries has been part of the learning curve for ages. We are working hard to change that, but right now it's like learning how to ride a bike.

When members demean collectors you are helping the forgery industry, not hurting them. Most people won't join to ask authenticity questions about autographs they purchased or are considering purchasing if they face the risk of being humiliated—which is utterly unjustified.

I know you're trying to be helpful, and I appreciate that, but Joshua did not deserve your treatment of him.

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Permalink Reply by goodcat on December 23, 2018 at 12:57pm

I'm not even sure what I just read here

But I do know it made my head hurt

What did I learn here? I dunno, do you?

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