Can’t find this one on his page? Maybe removed?
It's still on his page and he has no reason to remove it. It's a rushed transitional signature from Freddie (atypical genuine) and a rushed late 70s/80s Brian. A good example of a similar Brian can be found here on this NOTW.
Cogo, here's the link https://www.brandesautographs.com/en/catalog/product/view/id/55974/...
As always, thank you Innuendo for an informative answer!
Does anyone know what price it were listed at?
nope, - but brandes stuff is usually very expensive
This is the second time I warn Brandes about a fake Freddie being sold by him. Although Innuendo thinks it's good, I know that this has been forged. No way that a collector from Stuttgard gets from Brian and Freddie their autos in the same way and paper for a second time (just Freddie and Brian again?)... and then glues some cuttings on it as the first genuine autographs he really obtained. In my opinion, this collector has tried to sell the same kind of handwritting with the same technique just to make money again. And he has won!!!
Sold for 1200€. Some people try to copy their genuine autographs just to make money... I imagine you have seen it before...
Thank you for adding photos and proof of what you're saying. Am I understanding you correctly in that you believe these are genuine but wouldn't suggest people buy them? Would these not retain value being so a-typical?
Absolutely. Genuine doesn't always mean "BUY BUY BUY". Quality and value should always be taken into consideration. I have always advised people against buying transitional signatures as they are usually ugly and hard to resell. Some people don't mind that but personally, I avoid them. Not because they aren't genuine but because they're a pain in the behind when thinning out a collection. An item like this shouldn't have gone for anywhere near 1200. People see a real Freddie and freak out, not considering the quality of it first. First of all, unless it's a Freddie from college or 1991, NO paper graph of his is worth that much. Movie or not. But to say it's fake because the same in person collector got them at the same time and they signed in the same angle (probably thinking the other 2 were going to be obtained as well) is...well...not valid. Would it have been better if they were signed on albums? Absolutely. But if you're not expecting to see them boys, I'd assume the best you could hope for is paper. I've seen genuine signed menus, paper, and even luggage tickets! I'm sorry but his reasoning just isn't enough to deem these items fake imo. It would be a totally different ball game if the guy claimed he got them years apart or if he had an unlimited supply of these or even if they didn't sport genuine chatacterics. You need better footing if you're going to say you "know" an item isn't real. I see too many similarities between them and genuine items to say I have reason to question them. I wouldn't want either of them but I can't say I believe them to be fake or that Markus had any reason to remove the item.
Oh I get what you mean now. Thank you. I'm familiar with that style Brian as well so I didn't question it either but with the Freddies being so ugly as you say and with them still having genuine points would it have just been better for both parties to say "unsure" instead or is it blatantly obvious these are both genuine? I mean both of you seem pretty set in your decision and if I'm being honest I go with the guy who has more experience and provides examples but I was reading somewhere here about people saying items are "definitely" one thing or another could cause legal problems or something? Maybe it read it wrong but both of you seem to be saying they are definitely one or the other
You're right again, grunge. However, I don't think unsure is the right thing to say for these. More like "likely genuine but wouldnt buy". There was no reason Markus should have removed the item and although it sold for way more than it should have being what it was and the quality it was, I don't think Markus was in the wrong for offering it at all. Unless there's some info someone isn't telling us, there isn't enough proof to say these items are anything other than ugly transitionals.
I do however need to remember to say "likely" before giving my opinions. I'm guilty of that as well. As some items aren't so cut and dry. Best
Atypical does not always mean fake. Freddie spent the end of the 70s and the beginning of the 80s changing up his hand and that left room for..well..plenty of ugly sigs in between. They aren't ideal and they aren't easy to sell being so odd, but they are genuine.
If I had to guess, I'd say the item in question was from 78-80. Not pretty, but not fake. Best.
Yes David, you are right. There was a change at that time. But look at my 1978 signed sheet which I bought to Brandes years ago. Compare both signed sheets, mine and the one that has been sold 2 hours ago.
Both sold by the same "in person collector" from Stuttgart to Brandes. I'm afraid this second one has been forged. Too many similarities between them. Same angle of incline. Same style. Same signatures. For me, forged.
The first item from Markus you asked about is absolutely genuine. To believe that the second one is forged is to believe the forger had an unlimited supply of whatever sheet/magazine the first item was signed on...and they'd have to have been able to forge a perfect Brian in non erasable marker that matches the OP. I don't think that's likely. Think back to all the Innuendo promo posters. Signing back to back to back, Brians signatures did change slightly but not a ton. Whereas Freddie's did vary from item to item. I don't think it's possible for anyone to nail a Brian in marker (can't be erased and tried again) on the same magazine (?) Item and still manage to get an ideal M out of Mercury. Mind you, I wouldn't suggest anyone buy the second item you posted and that has got to be the single ugliest, atypical mess of a Freddie I've ever seen lol- however, I think the chances of it being forged are pretty slim. If the forger was that good at nailing Brian, why would he have gone that far off with Freddie? The Freddie is hideous but the Mercury actually fits in with a more typical early 80s look.
Hope that makes sense. Best
Below is an example of similar Brians with very different Freddies from items that were also signed back to back. Both sporting similar angles and styles.