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Charlton Heston - secretarials, variations & authentics (post 'em here)

This is the place for the discussion as to the follow-up for the secretarial study thread.

That thread; proposed;

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

and it seems to have merit. However, in looking at hundreds of Hestons of late there are many that fall into the above theory and yet quite a few variations that aren't so clean. There are no sacred cows in this thread but do keep it civil.

Bear in mind as you cascade thru the many examples below there are clearly some that fall into this, some that don't and an interesting variation.

Some commentors have been quick to point out that dealers and sellers of these items may have fallen into following a "bogus" exemplar. I will post Jan Schray's exemplars and the "secretarial" one touted here will be found in her 1997 exemplar book. Thus, without a date on COAs it's hard to tell when something was sold.

Cyrkin in the other thread opted to close it with a number of justifications; ... indisputable work. It's at risk of being adulterated by Hestons being presented as either genuine, out and out forgeries, or variations of known secretarials without the painstaking, focused research and consensus-building that made this study so valuable in the first place. That's beyond the scope of this discussion and is putting the study's clarity and integrity at risk.

I for one could not disagree with this rationale moreso. It is thru the posting of perceived hestons that either lends support, refutes or enhances the theory. I noticed the updates to the original blog include; I will note that, out a hundreds of exemplars, I found a handful of books that did not have a distinct "r" formation. My theory is these books may have been through-the-mail exemplars signed by a secretary. The reason for this could be that Mr. Heston's schedule did not allow for signing at that time or, once his illness took hold, secretaries began signing books through the mail as well as photos.

I've also noted this in same discussion with Zipper and there was a suspicion that other forgeries were apparent. it is the continued flow of questionable non-authentic items that gives strength to any theory. I'll attempt to capture the many examples before they are arbitrarily removed.

6/13/12 - Rules of the Thread;

R1 - stay on subject (don't care for moderated blogs but since owners of threads have little recourse to have comments removed at their discretion).

R2 - if you are going to post a link than at a MINIMUM post the picture of the item. The secretarial study thread has a number of links to non-existent photos. Esp Ebay ones as they have been removed by EBAY or no longer visible. If you don't know how then after you post the comment pm me and I'll capture the picture for posterity.

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Permalink Reply by Brick Hunter on April 3, 2013 at 10:05pm

A couple nice Heston pieces sold on eBay recently. Most likely due to ABC's annual airing of The Ten Commandments and maybe somewhat spurred by the Jim Carrey Funny or Die thing. My favorite of which was this 16x20 signed and framed which had been on eBay forever:

The nicest Heston SP on eBay. I might have snapped it up months ago except I'd probably need to find a different living arrangement if I spent, or someone in my household might say blew, $219 on a Charlton Heston autograph.

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on April 3, 2013 at 10:36pm

What a beautiful signature and photograph. Very desirable!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on April 4, 2013 at 3:58am

That is a beauty and had been on eBay forever. The seller was probably ripe for a much lower offer.

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Permalink Reply by Brick Hunter on April 9, 2013 at 3:20pm

I wish they had been. I think the seller knew what they had. It's a fair price considering the framing looking in decent shape and the photo being 16 x 20. I don't know when you'll see another as nice as that. Could be the crown jewel of a Heston autograph collection or even hanging on the wall right beisde his robe or the tablets from TTC.

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Permalink Reply by Greg on November 6, 2016 at 12:22am

Ok, this Heston is driving me crazy! I've seen so many, and always knew what to look out for, but this one is throwing me for a loop! (Pardon the pun! Lol)
The 'Charlton' looks pretty typical of a version of his true signature. Even the 'He' in Heston I've seen before. But it's the 'ston' which has me at a loss, especially the 'e' going to the 's' and the odd looping of the 't'. The squiggle going down makes sense since he runs out of room, yet if he's so used to signing this particular head shot, wouldn't you think he would have started his signature more to the left to fit it all in?
Can someone please help me out! Is this yet another version of a real signature I need to keep a look out for?
Thanks so much!

Attachments: No photo uploads here

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Permalink Reply by Will McIntosh on December 30, 2016 at 10:11am

I recently returned to autograph collecting after a 2-decade hiatus, and just read through the Charlton Heston analysis. Now I'm progressing through the stages of grief. This was one of my favorites, completed through the mail in the '90s. With a big, fat secretarial signature dead center.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 30, 2016 at 10:37am

Hi Will,

Welcome back to autograph collecting. I also returned after a long, long break. It's a different world now! It's now the good, bad, and ugly. The good; you've found a great sight here to assist you. The bad; some of what we used to think was good is not. And the ugly; more forgeries than ever!

Enjoy!!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Viola on December 30, 2016 at 11:20am

Were the other signatures also obtained thru the mail? Most significantly Kim Hunter. I got her TTM in the 90's. NYC address I think.

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Permalink Reply by Will McIntosh on December 30, 2016 at 11:26am

Hi Steve,

Yes, this Kim Hunter was TTM in the 90s as well. Before I sent the photo (which already had the Heston and McDowell, as I recall), I wrote and asked if she would sign it, and she replied that she'd be happy to.