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Charlton Heston - secretarials, variations & authentics (post 'em here)

This is the place for the discussion as to the follow-up for the secretarial study thread.

That thread; proposed;

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

and it seems to have merit. However, in looking at hundreds of Hestons of late there are many that fall into the above theory and yet quite a few variations that aren't so clean. There are no sacred cows in this thread but do keep it civil.

Bear in mind as you cascade thru the many examples below there are clearly some that fall into this, some that don't and an interesting variation.

Some commentors have been quick to point out that dealers and sellers of these items may have fallen into following a "bogus" exemplar. I will post Jan Schray's exemplars and the "secretarial" one touted here will be found in her 1997 exemplar book. Thus, without a date on COAs it's hard to tell when something was sold.

Cyrkin in the other thread opted to close it with a number of justifications; ... indisputable work. It's at risk of being adulterated by Hestons being presented as either genuine, out and out forgeries, or variations of known secretarials without the painstaking, focused research and consensus-building that made this study so valuable in the first place. That's beyond the scope of this discussion and is putting the study's clarity and integrity at risk.

I for one could not disagree with this rationale moreso. It is thru the posting of perceived hestons that either lends support, refutes or enhances the theory. I noticed the updates to the original blog include; I will note that, out a hundreds of exemplars, I found a handful of books that did not have a distinct "r" formation. My theory is these books may have been through-the-mail exemplars signed by a secretary. The reason for this could be that Mr. Heston's schedule did not allow for signing at that time or, once his illness took hold, secretaries began signing books through the mail as well as photos.

I've also noted this in same discussion with Zipper and there was a suspicion that other forgeries were apparent. it is the continued flow of questionable non-authentic items that gives strength to any theory. I'll attempt to capture the many examples before they are arbitrarily removed.

6/13/12 - Rules of the Thread;

R1 - stay on subject (don't care for moderated blogs but since owners of threads have little recourse to have comments removed at their discretion).

R2 - if you are going to post a link than at a MINIMUM post the picture of the item. The secretarial study thread has a number of links to non-existent photos. Esp Ebay ones as they have been removed by EBAY or no longer visible. If you don't know how then after you post the comment pm me and I'll capture the picture for posterity.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by DB on August 30, 2012 at 5:37am

thanks brick. was wondering on this one but there were so many others to look at... that I would get back to it later. What is bothersome is the COA. Notice it says UACC on it. But it's for a member not an RD. I indicated this previously that UACC needs to address what UACC members can print & where (especially on a COA). Notice they are not using the trademark but this COA, in this instance, brings negative reaction to the UACC.

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 30, 2012 at 6:05am

gone.

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 30, 2012 at 5:19am

0 results found for 221101350235

and just so some realize i don't post each and every one especially when it's the run of the mill unless there is something entertaining; here are but a few more that have left EBAY;

Item 350569567573 is no longer available

Item 350569566635 is no longer available

Item 110887875663 is no longer available but I think you get the picture.

and speaking of picture... Can't help but notice that a number of items previously removed are making their way back as "pre-prints"/"re-prints" at far less than originally $$ asked for. Nonetheless, it strikes me that once again there is more work to be done! This one should draw a chuckle as this previously identified forgery has a description by the seller bunnpics that says, "

EACH ITEM IS PROFESSIONALLY REPRINTED

DIRECTLY FROM THE SIGNED ORIGINAL FROM

MY PERSONAL COLLECTION."

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 29, 2012 at 2:32pm

sanity check - I think we are ok but it's always good to confirm...

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on August 29, 2012 at 3:36pm

Looks good.

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 29, 2012 at 3:42pm

thanks zip, I thought so... but it's always good to have a 2nd set of eyes.

starting to see more "chars" and start to wonder if the forgeries have caught up or we are seeing more authentic ones.

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 29, 2012 at 3:15pm

haven't paid alot of attention to Hestons on Ebay and can't believe all the fun we missed... like this one; This seller might want to reconsider his source.

A GREAT 8X10 PHOTO HAND SIGNED BY CHARLTON HESTON. A 100% AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPH GUARANTEED TO PASS ANY THIRD PARTY INSPECTION FROM A TRUSTED AUTHENTICATOR SUCH AS PSA, GAI, OR JSA.

I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING AUTOGRAPHS FOR ALMOST 15 YEARS. I USED TO GET AUTOGRAPHS IN PERSON, BUT NOW THAT I HAVE A FAMILY TO TAKE CARE OF, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT. I MOSTLY OBTAIN AUTOGRAPHS THROUGH THE MAIL, OR PURCHASE ONLY FROM TRUSTED SELLERS ON EBAY. I FOCUS MY TIME NOW ON RESEARCHING CELEBRITY ADDRESSES, SIGNING HABITS, AND FINDING DEALS ON AUTHENTIC ITEMS RATHER THAN CHASING CELEBRITIES IN PERSON.

Comes with a COA from Myron Ross at Heroes & Legends