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How to handle a dispute? Please let me know your thoughts!
Hi everyone!
I would really appreciate your help regarding a transaction I’ve made with a trusted dealer (with a long experience of buying & selling) in a FB group where we can’t agree on a fair solution for both parties. I think it is most fair to not name either the dealer or the FB group and just focus on the facts.
Ok, here is the full (long) story: I sold two autographs for $520 to him and he got to choose if he wanted to pay a higher sum with Goods&Service or a lesser sum with Friends&Family, he chose to pay F&F. I then asked him if he wanted the package marked with a low value to avoid custom fees and he said yes to this. (See photo 1&2)
In my opinion both these choices were made to save the buyer money but both choises comes with a higher risk involved, which the buyer for sure knew since he has a long experience in the autograph community. I have myself bought lots of items where the sellers have marked the package low to save me from custom fees, always with the understanding that it means that it will not be insured and that I, as the buyer, will take the hit if something happens. I have always thought that was kind of a mutual understanding among collectors when marking an item with a low value.
The package was then shipped with trackingnumber and is trackable from me in Sweden to the buyer in the US. There is no way for me to put a $15 value on an item and then insure it for $520, since both shipping and insurance are bought from the same person at the postal office.
Unfortunally this time the package got lost, the US postal service has done an investigation and can’t find it.
The result of the buyers two choises above is that neither paypal (can’t use its buyer and seller protection since the payment was done with Friends&Family) or the swedish postal service (since it was marked with a low value) will cover for the lost package, meaning that if refunded I will take the full hit.
In my opinion I asked the buyer what he wanted, he got to decide what would be best for him and then I did as we agreed on. And now he still says this is all on me and that I should refund him all the money. I have offered him a 50% refund to be fair, although I tecnically don’t have to since he chose to pay with Friends&Family. And to be honest, the way he’s behaving I’m thinking of just block him and give him nothing back!!
When trying to explain this to the buyer he said that I was totally wrong and that he would make a thread on FB where he would ask the members for their opinion and according to him these replies would then determine how we settle this. But for some reason (!!!) he didn’t mention anything about him chosing Friends&Family and a low value on the package, that I shipped with trackingnumber and that I despite this still have offered him a 50% refund. If I didn’t know better it’s almost as if he did that on purpose to get the answers he wanted… He then uses the answers from the (misled) members to push me to refund him. And when contacting me with the results he for some reason only attach screenprints from the members that agrees with him, not everyone who doesn’t…
And now it has gone so far that he makes ”hidden threats” against me, saying that he will make a public post if I doesn’t fully refund him.
To get advices I’ve asked several of my long time collector friends how to handle this and one would refund even though he thinks the blaim isn’t on me, two would try to find a solution that both are happy with and the last three said that I shouldn’t refund anything, that the buyer fully knew what he was doing.
I have sold hundreds of autographs over the years and there have never been any problems until this autumn were two packages got lost at the same time. But the other had been marked with a correct value so after a long discussion with the swedish postal service (they never makes it easy) they finally covered the lost package and I could refund the seller and that situation got resolved. But the above is a very unfortunate situation for me. Here’s a link to some feedback I recieved at Autograph Magazine Live when selling here: https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/member-gogo?xg_source=activity
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts about this situation. Thank you for helping and take care!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JK on
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In general, I agree that it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods delivered. However, in this case the buyer asked for accommodations to reduce cost while creating risk. The provisions for covering a loss (PayPal, postal insurance) were freely surrendered by the buyer.
It is not reasonable for the buyer to request/accept greater risk to save money, and then complain when something goes wrong.
The bottom line is that the seller should never allow these accommodations in the future.
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Food for thought. Say the item eventually shows up at his door - is he going to send the refunded monies back? I had a case closed package missing that showed up out of thin air 17 days after the fact.
I would wait at least 30 days before doing anything at all.
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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on
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I had a similar experience. I shipped an item to the UK. It was over 60 days missing. I refunded the buyer and the item showed up at his door the very next week. The good news is that the buyer contacted me and resent me the money I refunded. Now that is honesty.
It all comes down to the trustworthiness of the person you are dealing with.
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Permalink Reply by Cogo on
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With so many members helping out I will reply to all questions in one post, instead of spamming this site…
@michelle: 1. yes, I’m having a hard time seeing what he would gain from going public. 2. The difference in price for G&S and F&F was just $30, not so much but if you do this many times it adds up to quite a bit of money. But in hindsight, not worth it for sure!
@Dan Morris: I promise you that this has been an learning experience for me…
@Mikex: 1. the buyer 100% knew what he was doing. He’s one of the big ones in the autograph business and have been buying/selling for many years. 2. How can I as a seller have a higher responsibility if the buyer wants to pay F&F? In my opinion, it’s the opposite…
@JK: 1. Actually I didn’t save on any insurance fees. In Sweden insurance is included in the shipping cost, so I had nothing to gain from this. 2. I always ship with trackingnumber, both so the buyer can see that I’ve shipped and so that he/she can folie the packages journey. 3. It’s been missing since August 26 and the US postal service have done an investigation and it’s for sure gone. 4. Lesson learned for sure, I will not make the same mistake again!
@Bjorn DVD: 1. I’m just not comfortable discussing private things like this using my real name on FB. But when discussing the actual facts, I have nothing to fear. 2. I agree, in my opinion he knew all the time what he was doing and now he is just trying to push me to do what he wants!
@Richard Booth: Thank you so much for your help!
@Joe W: if it was a G&S transaction and a correct marked value I would agree with you 100% and would have refunded already. But when you say that ”Manipulating the system is not a way of avoiding the consequences” I think that should not only aply to me but also to the buyer who wanted this. That’s why I offer a 50% refund, we are both to blaim here. But the way he’s behaving makes me think twice about giving him anything at all if I’m totally honest…
@Michael Lee: the package left Chicago August 26 and no updates since, so its gone for sure.
And a huge THANK YOU to everyone for giving your opinions!!
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Permalink Reply by J.Seah on
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Usually I would not ship anything above $300.00 with under declared value for custom purpose.
I usually make sure the buyer understand the risk that in the event the item got lost or damage during transit.
I will not be held liable for it. Buyer will have to bear the risk and the consequences.
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Permalink Reply by Bjorn VDB on
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I'm not 100% sure the package is lost. I had an item that got stuck in Chicago too for a while. It was shipped 5th of may and arrived the end of july so nearly 3 months.
Btw I thought that USA buyers didn't have to pay customs? Why would he agree to put a low value on the package?
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That has changed. I recently purchased an item from the UK and was charged an additional fee. It's states "tax" on the invoice. Not sure if the US or the UK issued the tax.
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Maybe very recently. But about a half year ago that wasn't the case (from Europe to USA) and this transaction is from august so I have doubts about it.
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Permalink Reply by Steve on
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Hey Cogo,
In my experience, the person who is trying to save a few bucks by asking for a lower value to avoid fees and doesn’t want to pay a few extra dollars for PayPal protection is also the type of person who is fine with everything as long as it goes their way. If a problem should occur, they throw all reason out the door and want full reimbursement completely disregarding the fact that they have a partial responsibility in making the choices they did. If they ignore reason, refuse your generous 50% refund offer, go onto a forum and leave out a portion of the facts, that tells you very loudly what type of person he is.
In a case like this, you cannot assume what he knows, the consequences for choosing the less expensive way, unless you explained them to him. On the other hand, he also bears some responsibility for looking into and understanding what will happen if something goes wrong (missing package, damaged item, etc.).
I believe that he fully expected there to be no issues and that he would save some money. He most likely didn’t consider, What if?…….
Lastly, as mentioned previously, I have also had more than one item disappear and then show up a few weeks later and when you look up the tracking number, it still shows it somewhere completely different. This could still show up for him, it may have shown up and he is not telling you the truth. I would wait a little longer. Did the post office in the USA do an investigation?
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In this case I’m 100% sure he knew what he was doing and I can’t blaim him for taking that chance. I’ve myself bought hundreds of autographs from the US over the years, many have been marked with a low value and every single one has been delivered safe and sound.
It’s a different thing with the F&F part, that I try to avoid when buying.
The US postal service did an investigation by request of the swedish postal service and unfortunally didn’t find it.
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