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Is everything from GAI fake?

I was thinking recently about the amount of fakes that are authenticated by GAI, so I went through my items and located 5 pieces authenticated by them. I looked up the corresponding number on their website (what's left of it anyway) and found that two items aren't even listed. The database shows no item exists. Two of the three items I know are legit as they were from a private Willie Mays signing a few years back and included the Say Hey authentication plus the MLB authentication. The other three I believe are bad. Two are Stan Musial 8x10's and one is Bart Starr 8x10. 

 

What I find interesting is that you would assume that people who have legitimate authentic photo's used the GAI service. There should be a quantity that are real! But, it appears that almost everything I come across is FAKE! Did they authenticate anything real, or did they have a network set up where they had people produce known forgeries and then they authenticated them? It seems to be the latter. I wish I could remember who I bought these three from and contact them. You wouldn't think they would spend their time on Musial and Starr. Any opinions on this?


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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 17, 2012 at 5:44am
I agree DB...coming here is to be commended. There are lots of genuine GAI autographs. They were good for several years. I don't know when things fell apart. The 30,000 were the first evidence I had that something was wrong there.
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 17, 2012 at 5:23am
I didn't say 30,000 certs were simply handed out on the Mantles, DiMaggios and Williams. According to GAI at the time they were very careful--even consulting a forensic examiner! (I wonder which one?)

That they all are fakes, though, does point to obvious flaws in their system.
Permalink Reply by DB on February 17, 2012 at 6:08am

That they all are fakes, though, does point to obvious flaws in their ...

But how can anyone possibly say all 30,000 are fakes?   Has anyone seen ALL 30,000?

I believe we were in the Mantle/DiMaggio & Willaims thread and you responded;

to an initial inquiry I made about the unreliability of 100 - 150,000 fake marino statement. It could be ten times that amount, or not!

but to recollect some of the conversation (read from bottom to top) it certainly sounded like we were talking about these three but you are right you didn't say exactly, "simply handed them out".  However based on the dialogue I drew this inference...

 

Comment by DB  I have no doubts and hopefully there was collaborating and supporting evidence to support the claim that GAI knowingly provided fraudulent authentications of this magnitude.

Over the years I have fondly referred to "guess"tamates of this magnitude as WAGs.  Then when science & forensics comes into play such as "the new black holes is 8 billion times larger than our sun" as SWAGs.  For those not familiar with the acronym that would be "scientific wild a$$ guess".

Comment by Steve Cyrkin DB, I was told 30,000 by someone at GAI, and I think they did more afterwards. The Marino stuff is based on what's been reported/estimated.
 
Comment by DB Steve, with all due respect you have no "evidence" to the exact numbers nor is there any substantial evidence other than speculation with regards to what was forged.  that doesn't mean that there wasn't substantial forgeries.  
 
Comment by Steve Cyrkin DB, the Marinos (Operation Bullpen) easily forged 100,000-150,000 Mantles, Williams and DiMaggios.
 
GAI certified tens of thousands (if not 100,000 or more) different Mantle, DiMaggio and Williams forgeries out of Florida—the same source that these days are mostly certified by Morales, AAU/Drew Max, TTA and MIA Nicholas Burczyk.

 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 17, 2012 at 6:23am
DB,
I haven't seen all 30,000 but they were all from the same source, supposedly out of the same warehouse in Florida, and all the ones suddenly flooding the market from GAI back then (2007-8) were the same kinds of forgeries. The same forgeries that PSA and JSA refused to authenticate when the deal was first offered to them. So I think I have more than adequate grounds to say what I said.
Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on February 17, 2012 at 6:14am

In all, due respect, "bashing" is when someone cherry picks mistakes and blows it out of proportion.  However, it's not bashing to rightfully criticize what appears to be mistakes in mass quantities.

As we have noted in this thread and in others, there appear to be massive volumes of highly suspect Mariano Riveras, Derek Jeters and others all with the Sipe/GA cert. Look on ebay at the moment... I bet there are at least 20 of this unusual signature all with your cert. This has been going on for at least a year. Did Rivera -- who is exclusive with Steiner, by the way -- have a private signing and sign thousands of these odd signatures? I can't find any plausible explanation for these and how and why they were certed.

Everyone makes mistakes. I understand that and I would not criticize for an honest oversight. But I am not cherry picking these examples. They are out there in massive quantities.

I am seeing less of the one above and the one below appears to be version 2.0. Note the upgrade to "Rivera." 

Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on February 17, 2012 at 7:21am

These Rivera's get sold at auction daily...its amazing to me why someone would even buy these...the only reason I think people buy these is because of the price...because they look nothing whatsoever like this...I hope the forger is reading this....your work is absolutely horrific !!!!!!!...You can take money from uneducated...but you will never get money from us

Permalink Reply by DB on February 17, 2012 at 8:03am

sad part Cee Gee is there are alot more uneducated than educated.  The uneducated as a result put their "trust" in those that are suppose to be making the right call more often than not.  The forgers and thier distribution channels know it fully well plus "it doesn't have to be authentic, just certified".

 

although it would appear someone at GA needs an edumacation on Rivera or perhaps provide a supporting tutorial.

Permalink Reply by Steve on February 17, 2012 at 8:18am

You are correct that there are much more uneducated than there are educated.  We are a very small percentage of the collecting population.  The average person who picks up an autographed ball as a gift, something for their kid, etc. they have no idea, nor should they.  If they made autographing their hobby, I'm sure they would be much better informed in every aspect.  There will always be people taking advantage of others, buying a car, ponzi schemes, etc.  If I were a novice, I would want to trust a company who supposedly authenticated an item, why would I think they would possibly be cheating me as well, they are supposed to be the ones who are in business to help the masses.  Buyer Beware!

Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on February 17, 2012 at 8:28am

agreed !!!!

Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on February 17, 2012 at 10:52am

Very true DB...its a real shame

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 17, 2012 at 8:39am

Since he offered, why don't you invite Steve Sipe here to discuss these issues?

Permalink Reply by DB on February 17, 2012 at 9:39am

For the same reason Spence nor Orlando show up to discuss theirs.  Not worth the effort.  I am sure he has seen the jeter commentary and some others posted in various threads so I am told...  so, if the spirit moves him he knows where the blog is.

 

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