Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 17, 2018 at 3:19pm

Ezra, Nicholas Burczyk never authenticated one sports autograph.  His name was used and dragged through the mud with his name attached to thousands of Florida forgeries.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 18, 2018 at 7:46pm

Christopher,

Do you know who, or what company was behind the Burczyk certificates? 

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 17, 2018 at 9:17am

Thanks,

In hind sight, I was hoping I had not purchased them as well. I won't be purchasing them again tho. There seems to be a "loop hole" of sorts in the authenticity certificates. As long as they don't state the signatures are copies of actual signatures, they can allude to them being authentic in their wording. Sure, the signatures are authentic, but the items are not authentic. They were never touched by the actual signors. They are all copies of originals. If one were to super impose one signature onto another, one would see their identical nature. They fit precisely together. Hence the copy. Whether by an auto pen, or by photo copy, a copy none the less. By omitting this fact, these "Sports Authenticators" are being deceptive and fraudulent in their business dealings. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 17, 2018 at 10:32am

There is no loophole like that. They have to tell you they're reproduction unless it's clearly obvious (like a foot-long Mantle autograph printed on a T-shirt. And they are not copies of genuine autographs, BTW.

Scan the photo in high resolution, way higher than the one you posted, save as a PNG and post it. We'll probably be able to tell if it's inkjet, which means Mantle couldn't have signed it, period. 

I believe these are the same style of forgeries that were confiscated at a dealer's table at the National Sports Convention in Cleveland a couple weeks ago, and the dealer reportedly arrested.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 17, 2018 at 11:27am

"Scan the photo in high resolution, way higher than the one you posted, save as a PNG and post it. We'll probably be able to tell if it's inkjet, which means Mantle couldn't have signed it, period."

I asked this yesterday - I believe Ezra says he researched the "photographs and artwork" and could find nothing useful. I'm not so sure. Ezra, scan the back too if there are any with manufactures names and types like"Fuji Crystal Archive" or whatever. Those also can lead to hard dates.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 18, 2018 at 8:07pm

Eric and Steve,

I don't have a scanner. These pics were taken from my phone and emailed to myself, then uploaded. Perhaps it's a bit dated, but that's how I upload any and all pics. 

I have looked at the photos using a 10X loupe and from what I can tell, The Ted Williams is ink jet, but the others are actual photo stock. Also on the back of the Williams I can see lines in graph form, as if it was run through a printer (roller marks), but no identifying makers mark. I have also looked at the backs with a black light, with no result. 

Just out of curiosity, are these mantle signatures real? It seems to me, the Leading "M" in mickey is too close to the half moon where it meets with the down slant. If that makes sense. I have seen a number of PSA and JSA authenticated signatures trying to compare them, and that seems to be the biggest issue. 

The likely hood of having one authentic Mantle in a group of forgeries is nearly impossible, but I am leaning towards a hail mary maybe with the Ron Lewis artwork piece. Someone signed it in Mantles signature.

Eh, What to do with these? Scratch paper? Frame them up as an ugly reminder of what not to buy? Make a youtube video of setting them ablaze? 

Alcohol does remove the ink. I know it's hard to see from the photos, but there are marker strokes in the signatures themselves. Can an ink jet reproduce that kind of detail?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 18, 2018 at 8:24pm

Ezra,

None that I saw are real in my opinion. You're welcome to mail them to me to check them out and take high resolution scans and I'll mail them back in a week or 2. 

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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on August 18, 2018 at 6:30am

I feel for you Ezra, It wasn't really a cheap lesson after all reading the entire thread. Sorry you got beat like that. 

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 18, 2018 at 8:17pm

Fuddjcal,

Thanks. Hopefully some others can learn from my mistakes, by looking at the posted pictures and not buying the copies that are more than likely going to appear on ebay or amazon at some point in the future. 

Although, in all likely hood, no one is going to know until it is too late. Because, like me, I didn't start to investigate until I thought of having them authenticated, which is when I discovered this site regarding the "Florida Forgeries". 

I'm guessing the guy I bought them from found out they were not authentic, and passed the buck. I may be at a loss, but I would like to think he is at a bigger loss, because I would have purchased more from him. Now, I tell everyone not to deal with him or his wife because he sold forgeries. That's bad business.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 19, 2018 at 5:18am

Ezra, have you tried the Dry Erase Marker test?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 19, 2018 at 6:55am

The people you bought them from are as innocent as the guy on the street corner with an armful of Rolexes.

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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on August 19, 2018 at 8:35am

When I started out 10-12 years ago, I purchased a few autograph to hang in my home office. After I found out the Nicolas Birdsack stuff was fake I still displayed the photo's for a while then when on a mission to figure it all out. I started purchasing Mantle's many with no certs, once I learned his signature. Them moved on to Williams, Dimaggio, Koufax, Mays, Aaron & Drysdale. Then I got so sick of E-bay basically just promoting fakes I said F-Bay is OUT and stop buying from them altogether.

Now, maybe I get a bug once every year or 2 to check them out, but I'm mostly collecting cars now instead. Like a FAKE Bad ass 76 6-speed 454 Trans-AM Resto Mod with nothing original except the body, seats, dash and steering wheel. LOL Recently picked up a 19 GS Vette, that is not Fake. Much more fun blowing $$$ on Fake MODS and 3K oil changes, than autographs, IMHO. Instant karma will get the seller, don't worry. HE IS A COMPLETE LOSER and will always be a loser. You on the other hand had the $$$ to blow. It's just paper and you'll make more!

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