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Authenticity is Everything
Learning From This (Beatles Forgeries)
Hi everyone,
So the other day, I posted this set of Beatles autographs on eBay. It got a decent amount of views and watchers immediately. Then I received a message from someone stating that this was a copy of an available example from the back of a Parlophone card. I was shocked.
When I had first seen the set available, I asked the seller to ensure it was hand signed. He told me it was certainly live ink. So, I sent a photo over to Roger Epperson for a quick opinion. He replied saying it looked authentic. So I pulled the trigger. When I got it and inspected it, it was definitely some kind of live ink. There are even indentations on the back of the paper. I was convinced that, although there were some weird issues in the ink (I explained it away as the pen that was used), that it was legit.
I’m currently going through some financial struggles with work due to Covid so, as excited as I was to own this piece, I decided to list it on eBay. As soon as I saw the Parlophone card, I took down the auction. I had a few discussions with some excellent people from a Facebook group called Top Beatles Collectors. Someone had contacted Roger and told him about the situation since I did include his quick opinion email in my listing. I had emailed Roger inquiring about the cost to fully authenticate the item last month but never heard a response. We think it’s possible he may be confusing my first message to him with another more recent message from someone else, but apparently he told the person from the Facebook group that he never said it looked good and that it wasn’t his quick opinion/not a letter of authenticity. The first part was easily proven otherwise by my full email transaction with him plus my PayPal statement with matching transaction IDs. I’m not putting Roger on blast at all as I think he’s a professional with a great reputation but I must admit this confusion has hurt me personally and has affected my willingness to send stuff to him in the future. But my reason for posting this really has nothing to do with Roger. It’s the reminder that a quick opinion is not a letter of authenticity. He probably did a quick glance at the signatures and they do match up to mid 1963 signatures (because they are) so he probably gave the quick a-okay like I paid him to do.
But even further, I’m starting this is to discuss the type of forgery that this seems to be. The signatures on this page are certainly written with a pen. They don’t appear traced as they seem to be written with speed and some kind of flow. They aren’t drawn, so to speak. It’s possible these are machine signed. Hypothetically, that means if a forger gathered up four different sets of the four individual autographs and placed each of them onto one new surface, you’d have what appears to be a new authentic piece signed by all four Beatles. I hope I’m making myself clear here. I think this is a clever forgery but I think it could get much more maniacal and be even more tricky to tell through our screens.
So please, remember that a quick opinion isn’t the end all be all before purchasing a piece. Always look for full in person analysis and authentication. And be aware that people are always looking for new ways to scam you. Thanks for reading everyone. Happy collecting!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by spaceman on
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Sorry to read your story regarding this set of autographs. A lot of forged autographs look authentic. I always take note of the item they are signed on. Did the condition and look of the paper not concern you.
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Permalink Reply by Luke Iovenitti on
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It certainly should’ve. I guess in the moment I just really liked the sigs so much that I didn’t think beyond it and once I had the quick opinion I honestly never questioned it. It was 100% an impulse plus I didn’t think a forger could hand sign something THAT perfectly, so I just went for it. Definitely makes me more cautious going forward and more conscious of the piece as a whole as opposed to just the autographs themselves.
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Permalink Reply by fab432 on
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I’m sorry that you had to learn the hard way. Do you have recourse with the person you bought them from? Especially if they told you the signatures were genuine. Might be a good place to start.
I have a set of autographs signed by John, Paul and Pete. The signatures are on a piece of cardboard, live ink and under my printer’s loupe they look 100%. Trouble is I have now found 3 additional sets with exactly the same signatures and I mean exactly the same. Not sure how the forger has achieved this feat but it’s very troubling for autograph collectors. Seeing my set in isolation you would say great item when you see it lined up with the other three you say glad I didn’t buy that one !!!
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Trying to get in touch with the seller. We’ll see what happens. And wow, sounds identical to this! Would you have a picture just out of curiosity? I don’t know how exactly they’re managing to do it but it’s a nightmare for collectors.
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That’s amazing. It’s scary what forgets are able to do and it makes it even harder buying things we can’t examine in person.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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I remember I did an overlay of these when they were first shown here.
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Permalink Reply by Jim McFiver on
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Luke: Thanks for posting and sharing your experience. While impulse is fun at a grocery store, online autograph purchasing has it's share of problems. Especially with the canny forgers out there.
fab432's revelation regarding his JPP signatures should be a red flag for all Beatles collectors. If they can fool one of the smartest, they can fool everyone.
Pause your impulse, research, research & research, then only deal with credible experts/dealers - before checking back here. It's a lot of work but owning a genuine set of The Beatles is priceless.
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Agreed! I’m taking every precaution possible before my next purchase.
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It is my opinion things like this are to be ruled out by the collector before a Quick Opinion is sought, which by its nature has its limitations. I also believe I am in the minority. At any rate these all look uncomfortable to me and the presentation is way overcooked. The ink and paper are incongruous.
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Title edited to attract more attention.
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