Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Lol thanks JJ, I appreciate that.
So I’m still working with yours. I’m currently overlaying it with Kalokbe789’s who posted theirs earlier this in the thread.One thing I’ve noticed when overlapping these is the circle of the smiley face. Sometimes when you align that part, the lines of the signatures sometimes start becoming strikingly parallel. The circle itself doesn’t always match perfectly, and the dots inside the circle are usually a little off, but the outer shape sometimes starts to line up, at the same time as other lines.
In this example, all of the smiley face overlaps very closely.
Once that part lines up, a lot of the surrounding lines start running nearly parallel, with the signature offset just slightly, almost like a mirror of itself.
It doesn’t overlap completely as a whole. There are differences between the two signatures when you look at them normally. But those differences appear fairly minor, and it makes me wonder whether something like advanced autopen technology could account for that kind of small variation.
I’m not saying this is definitive of anything. I’m just putting it out there for JJ and those that are curious..
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Those smiley faces match and overlap very closely for sure Matt M.
way too close for my liking so that book is getting returned for sure.
l'm interested to see how my "ove" and L in "Love" and "Liza" match up
with other exemplars that you're banking.
Some Autopen varying templates being used are definitely L, ove, L, Z, A and smiley face...so far.
I hope our community keeps these exemplars from her book coming in.
JJ
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Yeah, i’m still working with it and testing different examples. That just seems weird, I feel like I could draw smiley faces all day and not get two to match up like that. Even if I did, I would not expect this surrounding text to be running parallel like that. It just seems weird, but maybe not.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Just saw this posted on eBay. Well here is one of the templates. Hidden under the dust jacket embossed onto the cover.
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no matches (partial sections included) that I see yet but they couldnt have been stupid enough to use the same template for autopen signatures, could they???... still looking to be sure but wanted to put this out there in case someone else finds something that matches in any way later on
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Right? what are the odds someone posts without the jacket? no one ever does that. May turn up nothing if they were smart about it but I always hear people say "things happen for a reason".. look up any other release and you will not find a listing with the jacket removed.
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Nice find Jason H
Sherlock Holmes said:
"the world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes".
AND
"there is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact" (The Boscombe Valley Mystery)
JJ
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Permalink Reply by Stonefacejr
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https://www.historyforsale.com/liza-minnelli-autograph-sentiment-si...
There is a card signed by Minnelli at the auction site above and the signature is identical to the book cover's facsimile signature. Based on the Sharpie halo, the card dates to at least early 1990's.
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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oh that is a nice catch. I posted that card long ago when I was researching secretarials..How do you know the date? I cant find mention of it unless im overlooking it
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Black Sharpies used to produce a yellowish halo as the marks aged. I understand that the company that makes Sharpies changed the formula in the early to mid-nineties, so this no longer happens.
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