Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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****WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION****
“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, actually include autopen signatures.
Multiple signatures appear to share identical geometry in specific segments when overlaid.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures:
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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The signatures in these books appear to have been produced by an advanced autopen system capable of introducing subtle variations in letter structure and placement, likely intended to disguise the mechanical origin.
Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Axelp123
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I don’t think they are gonna say now: yes they are fake… they will say they are authentic of course…
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Permalink Reply by michelle
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top level autopen machine costs $14,000 . So how many copies do they need to sell to break even and how many copies will get returned? Just saying.................
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They are available for short term hire too...
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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For Dylan, 5.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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They are either signed by the publisher or distributor. If they use an iAuto, they must have had the pages signed before the books were bound, because the paper moves during signing.
Bookplates could be signed by distributors—or the retailers, which is highly unlikely.
Retailers of signed books and digital products want to protect their reputations.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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ya, I think I'm gonna stick to the They're ALL AUTOPEN theory,
Your worst nightmare version of an Advanced Autopen that cleary employed multiple puzzle piece templates, derivatives sourced from the 1990's sample that is embossed on the cover of her book.
jj
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Am I understanding this right? I am a bit sleep deprived but are they really trying to say customers were aware of prior autopenned releases before placing their order? When have customers ever been made aware of this BEFORE purchase? When has a publisher ever told a retailer they were autopen prior to a release.. they need a smack upside their head.
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Here's the fine specimen of Health who rose to the monumental taskof signing thousands of Plum Perfect "autographs" for her books.Sidebar:
(At her "Book Signing" event, they actually handed out PRESIGNED sticker labels
to serve as bookplates that you could then stick into your book...
PRESIGNED though...hmmm....wonder why?)
jj
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I asked the indie that I purchased a copy from about a refund and had this reply... The publisher is obviously getting a lot of questions from stores but not backing down. I feel bad because these small businesses need the support but also I don't really want a fake autograph...
"We're sorry to hear that you're unhappy with your order. We have contacted the publisher who has affirmed that these copies were hand-signed by Liza Minnelli and not completed by autopen."
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Chris Ya, Publishers and Art Galleries doubled down and held the same stance with Dylan, until they were avalanched with evidence of AutoPen fraud, and finally had to succuumb!
jj
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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I’m sorry to hear that Chris, and thank you again for posting your copy a few days back as it has been useful. I guess I don’t expect anything different at this point, but we’ll continue to build the case. Ridiculous if anybody is going to have to fight for a refund on this.
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