Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) have gained media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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“START SPREADING THE NEWS”
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- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
UPDATE 4/1/26: JSA has classified the book signatures as "inconclusive," meaning they are unable to definitively confirm or deny the authenticity of the signature.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
The signature from the book cover above matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES on
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Marcus,
I've seen that machine. It's not hard to tell it's an autopen signature. Here's an example of it signing: https://damilic.com/autopen-video/atlantic-video
Look at the pen movements. If they're signed by a writing instrument, they need to move like a human to sign like a human.
They showed the machine signing but didn't show the autograph it signed.
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Permalink Reply by Marcus Green on
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Steve, I admit when you see the performance and imagine it trying to sign a football jersey or baseball, you wonder what the results are. As you highlight, they don't show the actual signature in that video. You can still see the strong temptation to use it.
Bring back the publishers conference room with 2 tables and an unlimited supply of coffee for the author as they sign away.
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What Matt M. has so graciously taken on with this Liza debacle, is akin to an Employer/Job Interview/Assessment task many of us may have had to do at one time.(Stay tuned and read to the end to get my point here.)This task is most commonly referred to as shape sorting, shape matching, or sorting tasks.Key Aspects of the Task:Purpose:To develop or evaluate fine motor skills, visual discrimination, and independence.
- The Process: The worker takes plastic shapes (e.g., cubes, spheres, cones) and matches them to corresponding holes or compartments in a box.
- Variations: The task might involve color-coding, sorting by shape, or fitting complex pieces into a specific layout.
- Now here's my point in all of this.
- EVERY TIME and ANY TIME that Matt M. discovers and demonstrates an EXACT overlay match between ANY two individual/separate exemplar's autograph components and spacing...Ipso Facto, THAT LIZA autograph is now deemed GARBAGE, FRAUD, AUTOPEN, whatever name you want to call it. Period. End of Discussion. JJ
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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Lol thanks JJ, I appreciate that.
So I’m still working with yours. I’m currently overlaying it with Kalokbe789’s who posted theirs earlier this in the thread.One thing I’ve noticed when overlapping these is the circle of the smiley face. Sometimes when you align that part, the lines of the signatures sometimes start becoming strikingly parallel. The circle itself doesn’t always match perfectly, and the dots inside the circle are usually a little off, but the outer shape sometimes starts to line up, at the same time as other lines.
In this example, all of the smiley face overlaps very closely.
Once that part lines up, a lot of the surrounding lines start running nearly parallel, with the signature offset just slightly, almost like a mirror of itself.
It doesn’t overlap completely as a whole. There are differences between the two signatures when you look at them normally. But those differences appear fairly minor, and it makes me wonder whether something like advanced autopen technology could account for that kind of small variation.
I’m not saying this is definitive of anything. I’m just putting it out there for JJ and those that are curious..
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Those smiley faces match and overlap very closely for sure Matt M.
way too close for my liking so that book is getting returned for sure.
l'm interested to see how my "ove" and L in "Love" and "Liza" match up
with other exemplars that you're banking.
Some Autopen varying templates being used are definitely L, ove, L, Z, A and smiley face...so far.
I hope our community keeps these exemplars from her book coming in.
JJ
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Yeah, i’m still working with it and testing different examples. That just seems weird, I feel like I could draw smiley faces all day and not get two to match up like that. Even if I did, I would not expect this surrounding text to be running parallel like that. It just seems weird, but maybe not.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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Just saw this posted on eBay. Well here is one of the templates. Hidden under the dust jacket embossed onto the cover.
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no matches (partial sections included) that I see yet but they couldnt have been stupid enough to use the same template for autopen signatures, could they???... still looking to be sure but wanted to put this out there in case someone else finds something that matches in any way later on
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Right? what are the odds someone posts without the jacket? no one ever does that. May turn up nothing if they were smart about it but I always hear people say "things happen for a reason".. look up any other release and you will not find a listing with the jacket removed.
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Nice find Jason H
Sherlock Holmes said:
"the world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes".
AND
"there is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact" (The Boscombe Valley Mystery)
JJ
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