Authenticity is Everything
Marx Brothers felt tip signatures on an early 1930's vintage photo
Some of you know that I'm a big fan of The Marx Brothers and have been fortunate to acquire some nice pieces from them. I belong to an online Marx discussion group. A member sent me a scan of the photo below that is currently being offered by a U.S. auction house. They are not an autograph collector per se but simply a Marx Brothers fan. They were thinking of bidding it and they asked me my thoughts. I told them I would try to get some other opinions as well.
It's oversized and does appear to be a vintage photo.
The first problem IMHO is that the signatures are just plain sloppy. Groucho's combines his earlier "G" with his later in life top flattened "r". The Zeppo looks like there were a couple of attempts at some of the letters with starts and stops and lighter and darker shades. Harpo has that once as well on the "o" like Zeppo had on his "o".It's like whoever did them hesitated at the final "o"s on both. The Chico does not have his signing nuance.
I guess the real kicker is that the description states it was signed in the early 1930's.... and that they are in felt tip pen!
Description als states that the 1930's dedicatee's info. stamp is found on the verso (which it is). The address includes a zip code. Those weren't first used until the mid-1960's . The font on the address is also a more modern style. Guess it could have been stamped later.
This photo has apparently passed through 3 major auction houses in the last 4 years.
Any thoughts to add that I can pass on? The felt tip writing instrument ,aside from the look of the signatures themselves, has left me extremely doubtful I'm sad to say. Thanks in advance from me and my Marx friend.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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No, you've done pretty much what I would. Correct re Zip code, fonts etc.
But what matter - if felt tip and described as signed in the 30's then you have fraud or a very incompetent seller - both are good to avoid.
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Permalink Reply by eddy on
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Thanks, Eric. Looks like one of those fine tip sharpies used applying different pressures... so I think the description is accurate about felt tip. It seems that should have been caught the first time around on the block. It's odd that it would go through 3 different auction houses over a 4 year span.
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It would be interesting in hand - that's for sure. As described by the seller it can't be good. It also has covered a lot of ground fast. Maybe it made 4 folks very unhappy. While eye appeal is poor, I imagine something more pressing is the cloud over this parade.
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For sure. It looks like somebody took a great vintage oversized still and didn't do much study before marking it up with that modern pen and an unsure hand. This one really saddens me...especially given it's sales history as it's made the rounds with the big auction houses in a short amount of time.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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The writing looks like it could be Sheaffer cartridge fountain pen. They came out in the late 1920s.
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AHA! Thanks Steve. Something to read about.
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Yes....interesting about those Sheaffer pens.
Sadly, and with the upmost respect, I don't think they apply to this case.
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Just did a little more research as this intrigues me. The Heritage listing for it from 2017 claims that it was "...Inscribed in black ink in the top blank margin by Groucho to actor Tom Murray." Unfortunately, the actor Tom Murray that was around in the early 30's when this is claimed to have been signed died in 1935. So Tom Murray missed the zip code era, which his stamped info. includes, by about 30 years. That's also not Groucho's handwriting....kind of a misguided attempt. Here's an authentic example of a Groucho "Best Wishes" dedication:
Interestingly, it's also apparently never had a TPA in any of times it passed through the various auction houses.
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Ah, auctions. The fine print can be awesome and I don't mean that in a good way. Just the other day I talked someone away from an item that they tell you the image is juiced, they will bid against you, nothing they say is fact and the usual rest of that nonsense. More digital ink spent on how to spend money with them and "outs" of every kind for them.
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Yep...that sounds about right. Juiced images and trying to "beat the house". This is not with all of them, but enough to be discouraging.
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The Tom G. Murray stamp on the back could have been the amateur historian and author. Here's a link to some books authored and published by him into the 1980s. Not much detail on him though:
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Good deal! Smart move.
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