Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 9, 2017 at 3:22pm

Lol, I can make a video of Paul doing the same. So the with the passage of time if memory is an issue then I guess your example autographs are possibly doubtful too

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 7:42pm

A live ink autograph should look like...live ink. I have not heard anything about the ink on this postcard in question to counter the things mentioned and shown that indicate a stamp, despite asking. Travel to the UK to confirm a stamp? No, I don't think I will. 

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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 10, 2017 at 1:33am

I've no idea where you are based but you mentioned the UK in an earlier post - hence the invitation. If you are an autograph collector than you might find the whole collection interesting to look at, not just the two Ray Charles autographs in it. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 10, 2017 at 12:22am

There is a book on Cunard Liners in WW1 and the Master of the vessel I research, authenticate and write about, R.M.S. Mauretania (1907-1934) of the Cunard Line, swore his ship was painted in a multi colored harlequin dazzle scheme in 1915. After much research and examination of the photographic record and contact with the IWM and the National Archives along with some period lectures I concluded and confirmed what I knew - these designs were not even considered until summer of 1917 and not that colorful. This will be published shortly (and correctly) for the first time rather soon.

Memory...and that Commodore used a ghostwriter I found! 

Another example. when Mauretania's sister Lusitania was sunk on May 7th, 1915 (and/or exploded due to various munitions we now know were aboard) the initial interviews with survivors, just a few hours after the event after being rescued by fisherman, described the "Big black funnels coming to crush them" - but weeks later they were described as the usual burnt orange/red which was the norma livery color likely retained in memory. But Kapitänleutnant Walther Schwieger recorded black as did several other survivors, some of whom did not survive but whose papers/postcards did and had no reason to "lie" or embellish. And still some eyewitnesses claim "red". Memory...

 

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Permalink Reply by marc e on September 9, 2017 at 10:30pm

this is not signed  by its a very early ray handbill from my personal collection 1951.i figured i would share it with all the ray debate going on

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Permalink Reply by Paul on September 9, 2017 at 10:37pm

Rr auctions sold a,R.charles programme two months ago, does anyone have a scan of that.
Im with Eric, it looks likely to be stamped.

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Permalink Reply by marc e on September 9, 2017 at 10:43pm

u should be able to go into old auctions and get it ur a registerd user

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Permalink Reply by Paul on September 9, 2017 at 10:51pm

Got it

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• Screenshot_20170910-154908.png, 1.2 MB

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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on September 10, 2017 at 1:32am

We don't know that the RR auctions one is real or not. Steve believed it was but other than believing the 55 year old story didn't know why. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 11:09pm

Hi Phil,

Can you provide a higher DPI scan of this? 

In other words, tell me why it is NOT a stamp? I am looking to LEARN!

Would you agree this is...atypical Phil?

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 9, 2017 at 11:29pm

One thing I can say - it is not typical ballpoint. So what was used if not a stamp? 

Is it a bit more likely a blind gentleman would use a stamp for most?

And the placement issues raised by others...

You said this was "signed" at the stage door - but not rushed and signed in stable circumstances?

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on September 10, 2017 at 2:04am

The RR Auction lot was the "Miss Cupertino 1962" example that has been posted above by Steve and Bjarne. 

Markus Brandes has also had a few examples. For some technical reason I cannot copy the images but here are the links:

https://www.brandesautographs.com/de/ray-charles-autogramm-5041870....

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ray-charles-ultra-rare-authe...

Not sure if non-members can see the Worthpoint price but it went for $1,625 in 11/2006.

Markus had a further example which he withdrew from sale after getting feedback on this site. Here is the thread:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ray-charles-and-his-...

For my taste the second of the above examples (sold in 2006) is also a little too neat and tidy.

In terms of neatness, I guess my own programme falls somewhere between the "assumed/definitely real" examples in Bjarnes' post and Phil's examples. It is not as wobbly as Bjarnes' examples but I think the way it is written (irregular letter size and spacing and slope from left to right) suggests it was signed by Ray rather than his manager. Given the source of the item I am sure it is not an out-and-out fake.

This discussion has obviously got a little feisty, especially re Phil's PC item. I don't think anyone is doubting Phil's integrity - or that of his friend - but if the PC is being offered on eBay for serious money then it should be examined carefully under a magnifying glass to make sure that the pressure marks you would expect to see are there. That would be the minimum due diligence I would expect from a seller.

Taking up your offer Phil, could you post any examples your friend has of the Searchers and Remo Four, the earlier the examples the better (I ask as I would genuinely like to compare them to some I have). I know you also posted many examples of the Beatles. I don't remember any objections to those.

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