Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 21, 2022 at 3:08pm

I haven’t spent a great deal of time on her signature, but this looks quite bad to me.

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Permalink Reply by Janna on January 21, 2022 at 7:35pm

I appreciate your response, thank you!

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Permalink Reply by Nick Dimeo on January 21, 2022 at 3:24pm

I would steer clear of offerings from this seller. Seller has another Sharon Tate for auction too (what a coincidence) which is also fake, imo. The red ink is in very poor taste. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 21, 2022 at 6:32pm

Three "Tate's" all together now.

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Permalink Reply by Janna on January 21, 2022 at 7:41pm

Thanks for this. As an amateur, I have no idea so I appreciate your expertise!

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 21, 2022 at 7:51pm

Only other thing to point out that is a hard fact is that his items routinely sell for far than autthentic examples. That Bowie, if authentic, would be over $400. It sold for $121.

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Permalink Reply by Old School on January 21, 2022 at 5:25pm

It's understandable to be suspicious that something is too good to be true. But things do fall through the cracks. And one shouldn't be so paranoid, suspicious and scared to take a chance if you can afford it. What's the worst that can happen? If it gives you pleasure and you enjoy it, then it serves it's purpose. By all means do your diligence, but remember that autographs have always come under a plethora of different circumstances. 

It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think authentication services are of limited value. Yes, for modern stuff with big names who are alive or were alive in the last decade or so there are criteria for hat can be useful.

But for older stuff, especially signatures from a century ago to the seventies or so there was no hobby industry or internet. Autographs were mostly acquired in person, by mail or various contacts. Much simpler times. And there was little money involved. So the hobby was one of trust as well as common sense. 

As a collector for over fifty years I can't abide the paranoia I see. Why even bother if every signature literally has to be examined forensically? And even then, is there really certainty?

As an experiment I took some autographs I obtained in person  (some even with pictures) to get 'authenticated.' and the opinions were mixed. Common sense says that everyone has variations in signatures. Especially over time and because of circumstances. And even the mood of the signee. Check your own signatures over decades.is every letter always identical?  

I'm not being dismissive or cavalier, because I know that there are people who try to make a fast buck with forgeries. But use common sense, make a decision and enjoy it if you do buy it. Even million dollar art forgeries were enjoyed till they suddenly weren't. Art and autographs are cultural symbols. You use your imagination to create a story around them. Enjoy your story and trust your judgement.

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Permalink Reply by Janna on January 21, 2022 at 7:34pm

Thank you for your reply! I still wanted to get it but now who knows!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 21, 2022 at 8:55pm

Old School,

You said to Janna:

"I'm not being dismissive or cavalier, because I know that there are people who try to make a fast buck with forgeries. But use common sense, make a decision and enjoy it if you do buy it. Even million dollar art forgeries were enjoyed till they suddenly weren't. Art and autographs are cultural symbols. You use your imagination to create a story around them. Enjoy your story and trust your judgement."

Your advice to Janna is very similar to the advice that long-time forgery dealers and galleries give. It's a confidence game. If that's your autograph philosophy please take a fresh look and reconsider it. And don't sell any autographs you didn't get in-person until you're sure they're real through objective evidence.

Anyone who knowingly sells a forgery is a thief, a fraudster, a criminal. Anytime someone buys from one of those knowing criminals, knowingly or unwittingly, they're encouraging them to try to sell more forgeries. 

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Permalink Reply by Janna on January 21, 2022 at 9:01pm

Thanks for your advice, Steve. I definitely learned a lot on here today. Not buying it for sure. Appreciate you all.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on January 21, 2022 at 9:04pm

Steve, +1 well said.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Morris on January 21, 2022 at 9:57pm

Agreed, well said Steve. As you say, only forgers would refuse to accept things are fake and like a snake oil salesman try to deceive some more

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