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Authenticity is Everything
Signs That a Dealer is Likely Selling Forgeries
How do you identify a bad autograph dealer? Whether you're at their website, in their gallery or store, or they're selling at events or conventions, there are signs to look for and questions to ask that will minimize your odds of being taken by the crooks. Share your tips, questions and experiences here.
Tags: bad, buying, dealers, forgeries, galleries, safe, tips
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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Jennifer, check PSA/DNAs Full LOA and that will give you some idea of what the costs can become and those might be simply an entry point. I doubt there are many that have ever piece authenticated but the ones that have a "notable" name would be wise to have some collateral on it.
Forensic Examiners started with the onset of Judicial proceedings with a focus on fraud. Some places even offer "online courses" resulting in certifications with distinction as follows (which is part and parcel to the problem this industry/collectors face).
Handwriting identification is based on the principle that, while handwriting within a language tends to be alike to the degree that we can meaningfully read it, there are individual features that distinguish one person's writing from that of another. Just as no two people are exactly alike, the handwritings of no two people are exactly alike in their combination of characteristics. There are, of course, natural variations within the handwriting of each individual. These variations must be closely and carefully studied by the examiner, so that he can distinguish between what is a "variation" and what is a "difference".
The examiner must also be cognizant of the differences between "class characteristics" and "individual characteristics". Class characteristics are those which are common to a group such as a particular writing system, family grouping, foreign language system, or professional group. Individual characteristics are those which are personal or peculiar letters or letter combinations, which, taken together, would not occur in the writing of another person.
Handwriting identification is a comparison study requiring authenticated specimens of known handwriting from the individual(s) concerned. These are closely compared to the handwriting characteristics exhibited by the questioned writing in order to determine authorship. Like must be compared to like: printing to printing and cursive to cursive, with comparable letters, letter combinations, words, and numerals.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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We kicked Heroes & Legends out of the magazine not long after we bought it for authenticity concerns. Then Autograph Central shortly later for the same reason. I've never seen an autograph from either of them that I thought was genuine. Interestingly, American Royal Arts has identified them as two of their autograph suppliers.
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Frankly , my answer is to develop esoteric interests. For example, as time passes, there is less interest in WC Fields or Bogart, so dealers have less incentive to sign the articles themselves. Another rule of thumb--if the autograph costs more than $150 ALWAYS buy from a dealer who is well established and is PADA.
Finally, merely asking about provenance tells you a great deal about reliability if the story is full of b.s. For example--"Yes, I met Neil Armstrong and he signed it 2 years ago". We all know Armstrong signs for nobody.
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Hi Steve - first and foremost they are "not authenticators" but rather opinionators. E.g. john reznikoff and I on another site had a roaring debate on just this subject. I don't concur that there is such straightforward recourse as he suggests especially when dealing with places such as R&R Auctions or the former Maestro (now Legendary Auctions), and the list goes on and on.
The danger I have seen is with these opiniators use "auction house LOAs or COAs" and it is questionable if they ever reviewed the item or in the case of multiple signatures. I recall asking one of the PSA/DNA well known opinionaters (Steve Grad) if he had in fact examined the item since his name was on the COA. The response, "please contact customer service".
So, said another way, it's just not the dealers who have problems but the plethora of these "opinionators" who proved wide and varied subject area expertise or so they claim - if the Item contains an Auction House LOA & you are at risk as it then needs to be submitted at a cost for a more extensive review and if the item contains multiple signatures most often the "weasel wording" (ahem Marketing Magic Words) may indicate "known celebrities only".
Or as Barron's reported some time back, "The Barron’s article refers to a horrific James Spence incident! Spence was then the lead autograph authenticator at PSA/DNA. A Fox news television station forged several signatures on baseballs in their studio and brought them to James Spence of PSA/DNA to authenticate. The result seen on the 11:00 news was extremely embarrassing for Spence. This very popular news report of Spence, on camera, authenticating forged signatures as genuine, was taped and copies of this embarrassing report were sold on ebay."
Had a similar discussion with Daniel Cohen on some of his items and he reported, "if these items had come to him for his "opinion" he would have claimed they were forged". The problem was that he otained it from the individual in person but got the "sloppy rushed signature".
If you didn't get the item signed in person with some type of supporting documentation (which can also be forged) then you are at risk.
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It amazes me how many "signed" items are credited where and when, when by simply checking the artists websites you can find that they were not even in the town, or in this country, when the seller is claiming when the item was signed. Truth be told over the years when I have seen some Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen stuff for sale on Ebay (one time the Stones were in Europe on tour most of that year). ~~~~ Homework people, do your homework; sometimes it is not brain surgery.
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You're so right. Gallery of Dreams and American Royal Arts sold 50th GRAMMY guitars supposedly signed on February 10, 2008 at the GRAMMYS. But the GRAMMY people say the logo on the guitars is bootleg--they never licensed any labels like that. There's no way any guitars except the ones the GRAMMY Foundation had signed could have gotten near or in Staples Center, where these guys said they were signed. The artists' people they checked didn't thought their artists' autographs were forgeries.
Oh...and Celine Dion was in South Africa touring.
All were certified authentic by Christopher Morales, of course.
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At the price most charge they can't afford to offer an authenticity guarantee. But there would be big and valuable business in offering one for an additional fee. So if an autograph worth $5,000 costs $100 to authenticate, they offer a lifetime authenticity guarantee to the submitter for, say, 5%...$250 more. And if next person buying it wants the guarantee, they pay a fee based on current value.
For me, the best way to buy autographs is through a reputable dealer with a money-back lifetime guarantee of authenticity. Then get third party authentication as a second opinion, and for some protection in case the dealer you bought it from isn't around when time comes to sell.
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Permalink Reply by Alex Krilov on
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Can anyone recommend a good Bruce Lee autograph expert. I bought Bruce Lee signature from millionaire gallery. When i asked them for independent expert , they provide letter from Donald Frangipani. Now I have doubts about this expert.
They also refuse to take item back...
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Alex, when did you buy it?If this is within 60 days of the statement date and you used a charge card you should be able to get a chargeback.
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No , I bought it 2 years ago, and ship it to my gallery in Ukraine. I have some customers, who would like to buy, but asked for independent expert opinion. I send it item back and they return it with letter from Donald Frangipani. But now I have doubts and I can not sell item that I have doubt about. My reputation is mach more important then any sale.
do you know this company?
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Alex,
Sadly, Don Frangipani, like Christopher Morales, has a reputation for working with the sellers of forgeries. I would be surprised if 1 out of 1,000 of the autographs authenticated by either one of them is genuine.
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