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Authenticity is Everything
Signs That a Dealer is Likely Selling Forgeries
How do you identify a bad autograph dealer? Whether you're at their website, in their gallery or store, or they're selling at events or conventions, there are signs to look for and questions to ask that will minimize your odds of being taken by the crooks. Share your tips, questions and experiences here.
Tags: bad, buying, dealers, forgeries, galleries, safe, tips
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Odom on
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What authenticating companies would be considered forensic? Who is an example of this?
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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It's really people in the hobby who are promoted as forensic document examiners, or court approved forensic document examiners that we see most of the "highly questionable" material from. Christopher Morales is by far the one you see the most. Don Frangipani, E'lyn Bryan and Drew Max are others your commonly see. But there are others.
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The term "forensic" means simply, "having to do with the law." Document Examination, as an established field of scientific study, came into being early in this century as a means of identifying forgery and establishing the authenticity of documents in dispute. It grew out of the need of The Court to be able to correctly evaluate document evidence. It has been stated that "Forgery was practiced from the from the earliest times in every country where writing was the medium of communication" (The Law of Disputed and Forged Documents, J. Newton Baker). It was especially profitable in those earlier times of general public illiteracy. For the reason that most of an examiner's work involves some form of handwriting problem, the field is sometimes referred to as "Handwriting Identification" and the practitioner as a "Handwriting Expert". Albert S. Osborn , with the publication of his book Questioned Documents in 1910, is rightfully credited with laying the foundation of this field of forensic examination.
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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on
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Steve,
BINGO! You nailed it with your observation on these "forensic experts". I think we have seen demonstarted MANY MANY times with some that you mention, these guys DO NOT have expertise with autograph authentication. But , the public is easily fooled by the tossing around of these cryptic credentials.
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i say yes to that profound wisdom steve buddy and i also ask q-a from customers,would be shoppers,or search the net for feedback good or bad!and yes ill look into there stock in multiples to determine is it live or memorex!and last but not least i go by instinct on the sigs presented but make many mistakes.its lessened alot hopefully as im honing my craft.too much greed,dishonesty,liars,downright fraud by hoaxers.i wonder how much of the hollywood wardrobes werent used in the film opposed to the ones that were screen worn?and how many signatures can marlon brando sign as theres a flood of them?
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i forgot to include that the celebs themselves sign a horde of things but theyd have to be 103 or so like rose kennedy to be able to sign and sign and sign and more signing of there jhs!come on guys as theres far more fraudsters than legits surfacing.i meet good sellers who stand behind there loot and one can plainly see its genuine.or at least im convin ced but thats not always good enough so they back it just in case.what happens if 2 authenticators disagree?chuck norris vs bruce lee time peoples.and you cant have it both ways as its either a fake or its not!
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You can always find a collector that you feel comfortable with that obtains his/her autographs in person and keeps them. Ask that person for examples of what they have signed. Then compare with your own eyes. This may not be 100% to say something is or isn't real that you are looking to purchase, but again, such homework can only help you out.
I have had people who where looking to purchase Freddie Mercury autographs contact me. There are not very many REAL ones out there. I have 4. Two obtained by myself in person in England and 2 that Brian May obtained for me and mailed to me from England. I hope such requests proved benficial to those that emailed me. I get Eagles requests all the time. Be very careful on any of those if you are looking to purchase.................
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I have just returned from a trip to Las Vegas and had to tell you about my experience at "Gallery of Legends" in the Planet Hollywood Hotel mall. This store had some pretty amazing signed balls... team signed "Black Sox", team signed 1927 NNY, Ruth/Gerhig, Cobb & inauguarl HOF Inductees to name a few.
When I inquired as to the authenticity of these balls (if they used PSA/DNA) they stated that PSA charged to much for their services and that "really the only way to be sure is if the item was signed in person". so I asked about the older balls and wouldn't it be worth the price to have them checked out by PSA as these balls could all sell for 5 times what they were asking for on auction sites and the fellow working the counter (without even looking at me) stated "yeah i suppose".
There were great deals to be had at this store as everything was 50% off, I guess the old saying "If its to good to be true - it probably is" is bang on.
What are your thoughts?
Craig
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When it comes to Las Vegas and tourist spots like Florida and Hawaii, even when the price isn't too good to be true, odds are it's not true. Who authenticated for them, Christopher Morales, Drew Max...?
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What's troubling about this is the response, "psa charges too much!. The item is in the thousands and whats a few hundred dollars more! They have a Dali offered at around $9k.... It would seem plausibile that an art expert would identify it as original -vs- repro! I am not aware of anyone who can or would look at a scan to venture an opinnion.
Problem with Mall/Hotel stores as many times as they have legit items they are also known (as we now know) to have an inventory of questionable items.
But unless you are OJ, the saying goes, "what goes on in Vegas, Stays in Vegas" except for those who bring something home with them!
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Number 1 - Experience. I wrote a report on avoiding autograph scammers on eBay located on my site below.
Kevin
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