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The much debated Ruth removed from the frame

Decided to start a new thread... Local memorabilia shop confirmed live ink and we removed it from the frame. It was processed in the mail in 1937 based on the reverse side. Took a few more photos before we packaged it up for JSA

the shop owner who’s been doing this for 40 years. “I strongly believe you got lucky as hell.”

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Permalink Reply by ITguy1984 on November 6, 2019 at 11:02am

This was certified by PSA. Probably at the time Grad was employed there. There are a couple red flags with this.. One is the provenance that it was signed in 1930, according to PSA own autograph facts Ruth ceased putting "Babe" on items in the late 1920's. Ron Keurajian also confirmed this in his book "Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs". The other red flag is the baseline of the last name. According to Ron, most forgers will sign methodically and work the signature while nailing Ruth's penmanship. They will not sign it with the nice up and down bouncy strokes of a genuine Ruth. If you place a ruler under Ruth here, it is a complete straight line of each character of Ruth's last name..

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 6, 2019 at 11:13am

Babe Ruth struck out 93 times in 1923 and 90 times in 1933. Why would you even want to collect him?

Permalink Reply by ITguy1984 on November 6, 2019 at 11:18am

yeah but for someone who is an expert in their field, this guy who has been studying Ruth relentlessly for a week noticed this in less than a minute..

Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on November 6, 2019 at 12:16pm

02/28/1930?

With quotes?

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on November 6, 2019 at 5:08pm

the baseline in the one you posted looks pretty straight. Also, it is believed that Ruth stopped using the quotation marks that he commonly used up to 1928 or so. However, there are examples of his use of these up to 1931, so I would not rule out authenticity based on this assumption.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on November 13, 2019 at 4:24pm

Some of those... :/

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 6, 2019 at 1:10pm

I'm not concerned if you keep it. But you're going to sell it, please make as sure as you can that it's real. You listed 4 people who said they thought it was real but you didn't say BAS failed it this time until I asked.

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Permalink Reply by ITguy1984 on November 6, 2019 at 1:26pm

Its only because that Beckett based on my emails back and forth with them, is not passing the smell test.

There was literally not enough distinguishable factors to flip flop other than a mistake which I highlighted previously.

With that said, I 100% intend to keep it. But if JSA fails it, I 100% intend to get a refund from the Ebay money back guarantee. And maybe have PSA or Beckett physically examine it at a later date and still keep it.. I am 100% not in the business of displaying forged autographs let alone selling them. But for me to display I wanted to know 150% it was genuine.. I don't even want to have a sliver of doubt. BAS failing it provided a sliver of doubt, which is why I have multiple people look at it since. All saying it appears genuine. All seeing the same scans, and actually better ones than BAS. I provided real close and clear images to other professionals. Many of which I had no idea who they were till I started researching this item.

Now if JSA passes it, I will do my homework and see what Lelands is willing to pay for it. But I give it a 98% chance this remains in my collection and inherited by my children.

I also do not know why you feel Beckett is the ultimate authority, what ever they say on this is the law of God.. Will you still feel that way if JSA passes it. If JSA fails it, I will feel pretty down about it. But any company who changes like the wind, bases on the scans I sent them both times raises some eyebrows with me.

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Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on November 6, 2019 at 1:40pm

I believe there are multiple Beatles signed pieces that have been failed by PSA & JSA, that ultimately were passed by Frank Caiazzo, and vice versa. I tend to put my faith in an authenticator who has spent a lifetime specializing in one thing, rather than authenticating 100,000 different signatures from exemplar files.

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Permalink Reply by James on November 6, 2019 at 3:50pm

Therein lies the biggest problem with major TPAs. Are they really experts on Ruth, Gehrig, AND Ariana Grande and Post Malone too?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 6, 2019 at 3:36pm

I didn't say that BAS was the ultimate authority. I asked if you sent it to them again after it was removed from the frame, since you listed 4 others you sent it to who you said thought it was real.