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Third Party Authentication Services. Does it matter?

My Dad had a saying and it goes, "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?". The answer, of course, is yes. But does the sound matter?


This analogy can apply to autographs in today's marketplace. If a famous celebrity signs an autograph for a fan and no recognized third party authentication service can verify it, is it still authentic? The answer is yes but does it matter?


Agree with it or not, third party authentication services are here to stay and continue to have a profound influence on the hobby. Those who think otherwise are fooling themselves. 


And when it comes time to sell you can expect that your buyer will likely expect your autograph to already be authenticated or will likely submit it to a TPA for verification. When that happens you may be blindsided by the results.


You may be the most honest person on the planet and your autograph may actually be authentic. But does it matter?

Not nearly as much as you think.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on July 13, 2020 at 9:08am

For me, this last 2 years, I have been upgrading.

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 13, 2020 at 10:10am

Kevin, for the record, I am constantly buying, selling, and trading. I retired several years ago and this is my "fun activity". My goal is to constantly be upgrading my collection and don't do this to pay the bills. Every year I spend more than I take in on autographs.

The reason I started this discussion is I am rapidly learning what most people desire when purchasing an autograph. Most, not all, want a COA with their item. Unbiased COAs must come from independent sources, IMO. Plus I have recently run into fine sellers with outstanding reputations that get quite agitated when autographs I've obtained from them do not pass independent authentication. Nobody enjoys getting scrutinized and having to refund money. Plus it's bad for business, especially in the long run, if it happens too often.

I am a very generous guy when dealing with collectors and will bend over backwards to make things right even if there is just a hint of a problem. Others are not so benevolent to put it mildly.

I am slowly changing my procedures to match the public's expectation. First, to protect myself. Second, to protect those who do business with me. That is only right in my opinion.

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 13, 2020 at 11:19am

The power seller have no issue getting any of their items passed , in fact they will even say to customers take your pick which company you want a coa from , some even own shares in tpa companies. Having a coa for high end items I understand the significance the more the merrier. Having a coa for low end items no wonder autograph dealers aren't making much money. These Tpa companies go through auctions and sticker everything at the end of the day their integrity sells out for the almighty dollar. 

Permalink Reply by Kelvin Anthony on July 13, 2020 at 11:25am

Well it sucks when the independent authenticator is corrupt.

I recently sent some of my stuff for authentication. I'm not power seller nor do I have any connections with any TPA so I guess I'd get an honest authentication process.

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 13, 2020 at 11:45am

I'm not a power seller either, Kelvin. So I guess we are in the same boat. I'll be thrilled just to get an honest authentication!

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 13, 2020 at 11:56am

Living outside the usa, perhaps it's just me but who's going to send items over to the states to have someone write a coa for an autograph, some companies only do us customers anyway.

What I've found over the years is these TPA change their mind so often, I wonder how many times an item is listed and how many quick options they turn down before one day the autograph is now real and they can make money from a coa. 

I find it difficult to believe in the integrity of tpa companies when their dealers are chasing down artist to sign items for free and now here's their buddies authenticating their items. 

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 13, 2020 at 4:09pm
Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 13, 2020 at 5:06pm

There is no law that requires anyone to use a TPA service. Funny thing though, even this site had a rule that autographs being offered for sale needed a TPA opinion. And this site is full of experienced collectors.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on July 13, 2020 at 5:53pm

+1 Although I am against TPG and stickers front or back. If its the goods it will sell in my experience. I have never offered a cert. Only genuine signatures.

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on July 14, 2020 at 11:52am

I was interviewed for this article by the writer for over an hour. All he was pressing for was negative information and dirt. He disregarded any positive responses. I know several other prominent hobby figures who had the same experience. None of us were quoted in the article... only the negative stuff.

So, I'd take this one-sided hatchet job with a grain of salt.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on July 14, 2020 at 4:16pm

If I were to venture into an area with which I am not familiar, (space for example, if I wanted t Neil Armstrong item) I would not proceed without the blessing of someone that specializes in that area.  What I have an issue with are the authenticators that are trying to experts on everything.  It's impossible.  And that is why so many errors are made by all of them, many of the errors being blatant and ridiculous.  I do see value in authenticators that specialize in one area.  I certainly would trust their judgement over mine in many cases.   I don't feel that way about most of the general TPA's however.

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on July 14, 2020 at 10:16am

Here is another example of the influence of TPA services. And this just happened TODAY! I recently had a Sean Connery signature receive a "not likely genuine" quick opinion. For transparency purposes, I actually acquired it from a member here. Now I personally believe this to be a decent genuine vintage signature.

Here is the signature in question.

So, as a precaution, I pulled the signature in question off eBay and started a discussion here to see what others thought.

Here is the link to that discussion.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/sean-connery-autogr...

As you can see, no one seems to think this Connery was problematic. So, I relisted it.

Today, I received an email that eBay pulled this item for being "counterfeit". Weird thing is the item was still listed for sale and not pulled. Again, as a precaution, I ended this listing until I get it TPA certified. 

I believe I will get this certified without a problem. PSA is NOT going to get my money though!

It does not matter if everyone here agrees this Connery is genuine or not. I would think most will think it is. It does not even matter that it is authentic or not. The power is out of our hands.

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