Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Abcd on September 23, 2018 at 1:38pm

Change it to 'TOO STRICTLY'

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on September 23, 2018 at 1:41pm

Personally, I think professional authentication services should have extremely strict criteria. With that said, they should have no more power or influence over the hobby than any honest, well known dealer or entity. Their opinion is no better than any other experienced eyes.

The bigger problem is people take it too serious what authenticators accept as genuine or not. I think, except for extremely new collectors, the true collectors can reasonably figure out what is what.

For instance, there is a reason that, say, a Mickey Mantle that should sell for $300 only sells for a third or less. Only the foolish are buying into that. Yes, there are instances where a forgery goes for big bucks. But that is the exception rather than commonplace.

TPA services have a role in this hobby but, in my opinion, are overrated. They are only another voice, a sticker, and a piece of paper. No disrespect intended.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on September 23, 2018 at 2:28pm

There is also the $600 item that sells for $300 that is genuine but flawed or poorly executed or damaged etc. (or just plain problematic). As for TPA I can ignore the voice(s), even the bit of paper, but the stickers...will be death one day, as soon as this or that concern goes out of fashion.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on September 23, 2018 at 2:46pm

But the reason is that it is flawed. True collectors eventually figure this stuff out. We don't need a TPA to tell us it's genuine or not. These services are primarily marketing vehicles. People think this, somehow, will help stop forgers. Not a chance. Look around. There are more forgeries than ever. It's a thriving business.

There were many forgery dealers before the Internet. Just think back when the UACC started their Register Dealer program pre-Internet. We get these catalogs. Look how many of those dealers went down once their wares got exposed online and they got booted.

We have everything online to figure things out better now. Plus, we have a site like this that is fairly easy to find. And others. The information is there to avoid 95% of the problems. People don't use it and want someone to do it for them. And sellers take advantage of this for protection....for a fee of course.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on September 23, 2018 at 3:04pm

I'm not saying TPA services do not preform a legitimate service. They do. Although they should have no more power or influence over the hobby than any other honest source.

I respect what they do. There is room for everybody. But they are just part of the hobby. Honestly, would these services be as big as they are if it wasn't for eBay? The Internet is the game changer and nobody quite has a grasp on how to handle it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on September 23, 2018 at 3:13pm

TPA authenticating has been the worst thing for the hobby outside off direct forgers. So many are naive to the harm they do. Look at them today. They help high volume forgery and questionable dealers sell bad stuff. So many collectors have used their opinions to buy large collections hat would suffer real depreciation should they know the truth about how bad these TPAs really are. Many think Steve Grad is the best. The guy is absolutely horrible. He’s money driven and has sold out long ago. Look at some of the garbage BAS passes for the dealers he stole from PSA. He no better then the forgery sellers he authenticates for.

Imagine letting TPAs get their foot in the door in grading. why would a collector need some goofs to grade a signature for them?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on September 23, 2018 at 3:22pm

Grading signatures is simply silly and unnecessary. Just another way to make a buck. At least authenticating has merit. As long as it done properly.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by James on September 23, 2018 at 8:05pm

Yes, I view the grading of signatures as mostly a gimmick that some people unfortunately go for and thus end up way overpaying for an item.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by goodcat on September 23, 2018 at 3:27pm

The last item I saw graded was a slabbed cut sig of a Vince Lombardi cheque and matted with some BS card. It was poorly cut (not straight edged) and cut out part of Vince's signature.

I can't remember who the TPA was, but this piece of crap was graded 9/10

Grading should not be part of the autograph world

Let the buyer be the grader  because I would have graded it minus 9

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on September 23, 2018 at 5:20pm

I think a deeper problem is, the "collector" has a vested interest in the TPA to never look like they are failing, or to just to write off errors from time to time as human error. If a TPA makes so many blatant mistakes, then it starts to hurt the value of the X amount of items you own with that authenticators opinion. 

Every single TPA is going to make a mistake. Unless you were sitting there and watched it get signed there is a percentage of failability. However I personally would rather a tpa error on the side of caution, use terms like "undecided" or "unable to render opinion" if it is sloppy or too close to call, rather than pass it. 

If it is an obvious fake, than a failure is ok. A pass should be used when it is clear and unobjectable. I think some tpa are too loose with their opinion. That is of course all my own opinion. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on September 24, 2018 at 2:08pm

Not sure Tim. I think they ususally (if my memory serves me) would give a credit for another QO (in PSA's case I believe) 

In my mind, I would rather not buy something that is too difficult for an "expert" to rightfully authenticate. Then see an item get stickered that clearly shouldn't have been authenticated. 

I think a reputation, especially in this hobby, is very important. Once you have made a mistake, you can be done like that. PSA and Beckett benefit from being a big name. Regular one off collectors arent going to research much past a sticker. 

The greatest thing Beckett has going for them is Steve Grad being on Pawn Stars. The value of that deal has made Beckett millions, because someone who watches that show is going to buy into his expert status and automatically believe he is infailable. 

I think we all need to look at it (TPA) for what it is, just an insurance. Easier to sell to a broader audience. 

I dont worry as much about TPA's, but I do still value opinions. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jimbo on September 25, 2018 at 4:45am

Generally TPA is a positive thing.  But only if you’re a seller or a very casual buyer.  

If stricter parameters for authenticating lead to more accurate outcomes I’m all for it.  Less false positives and false negatives.  The danger is if one of these companies totally corner the market.  We all know they are more accurate in certain areas than others.  If one does totally dominate they have to become more responsible AND accountable. Employing experts, even on an ad-hoc basis, in a relevant field would be a start and not just someone they went in to business with.  

With expensive items authentication is not cheap. Especially for non US collectors/traders.  There has to be more dialogue from them if an item fails.  I had an item that failed and when I eventually got hold of them so show them further examples from the same signing session they changed their minds.  For $150 I expect them to have this knowledge or at least research more thoroughly.  Time is money in their eyes though.

As for the stickers on the front of items.  It’s tantamount to vandalism!  You wouldn’t put a sticker on the Mona Lisa.  Has anyone tried to remove them?  Any damage?  My worry with these companies is that eventually money corrupts and we all find ourselves frantically trying to remove these stickers and damaging the items in the process.  

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page