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Authenticity is Everything
JSA and PSA - what has happened?
First let me say , I have always been a proponent of 3rd party independent authentication, because I believe it curtails the forgery industry. And I still believe that.
However I have always had mixed feelings about the competency of these 3rd party authentication services. And sometimes their questionable competence is enough to drive me to Rant, on internet autograph forums… Here’s why:
1. It is a sloppy highly subjective process more than any other collecting genre.
2. After all these years, STILL No standards that the public is aware of, which 1. above is a product of.
3. Most Authenticators have no documented governing credentials.
4.There’s a “good ole boy” network of players that influence (often negatively) the autograph collecting industry. For example, the same autograph can fail from one source but Pass from a “network member” source. Just look at the examples below of PSA and JSA certified JFK signatures and note that some are a dead match to the one I sent JSA, that they could NOT authenticate. But, PSA ad JSA seem to authenticate countless cryptic very similar JFK signatures for autograph auction houses that offer high volumes of business for PSA and JSA.
A couple months ago I acquired a JFK Signed campaign insert (see below). I thoroughly researched it with Hamilton’s “JFK Robot” book, JFK Presidential appointments and letters, and PSA and JSA certified IN-person style signatures of that era (1960). And found Several highly consistent matches to the one below I sent to JSA. After about 4 weeks JSA returned mine with one of the “we can’t opin” letters and a credit of my $150 to use on future authentications. Not sure I’ll ever have to use it as my confidence with PSA and JSA has dwindled over the years. If you cant opin after 4 weeks with my JFK how can I expect you to authenticate other signatures?
One of the reasons I option for JSA over PSA is at least they will Opt out . Whereas my experience with PSA has been if they don’t know , they’ll just fail it and cash your check. But, that’s another story.
These repeating experiences with PSA and JSA has been the #1 reason I have gradually lost interest in autographs. I won’t use the word ”shady” but it is a highly flawed collecting genre with no reliable resource of "experts" to consult, far more vulnerable than any other genre I have experienced. And being born with Collecting ADD, Ive collected about everything over the past 35 years..
So today after getting Another “Cannot Opin” from JSA, I am truly dispirited with autograph collecting and selling.
And dont get me started on these self proclaimed "best in the business" chest thumpers... ,.... I'd just ask, based on what data or examination credentials ??
I guess I could always send this JFK Signed item into one of the auctions houses or dealers who have closer "relationship" with JSA or PSA and get an immediate letter of authenticity.
Rant over…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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Steve, quick question. If autographs are sent in to main office then photographed and emailed or texted to an authenticator to look at would you consider that it was examined in person?
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Good question, Rick.
Someone has to examine every autograph in person to make sure it's not a copy, preprint or have other suspect characteristics, like signs of being adhered to a different object or the ink not looking the proper age.
If that person also knows the autograph well enough to render an experienced opinion themselves, but sends it out for more opinions by email, etc., then yes, I'd consider that examined in person.
But otherwise, no, I would not consider it examined in person.
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My thoughts exactly.
There are items being authenticated and stickered that are not being seen in person by the "supposed" authenticators. At least two of the big three are doing this.
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Permalink Reply by Mike White on
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But are they being seen in person by someone with the capacity to check:
it's not a copy, preprint or have other suspect characteristics, like signs of being adhered to a different object or the ink not looking the proper age
...?
You don't necessarily need to know the specifics of a signature to do those checks. Anyone with a modicum of knowledge on that subject can do those checks, regardless of what they know about autographs themselves.
If the authenticators are as specialized as they claim, I have no problem with them not being bogged down with entry level stuff & focusing only on the signature itself while someone else does the menial labor.
For crying out loud, my ex, who never had a thing to do with autographs in her life until I came into it (and, even then, still didn't especially care one way or the other about them) could identify pre-prints.
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Mike,
The techniques being used over the last 15 years or so to create fake or altered autographs is so advanced that even experts often miss them, even if they see them in person.
Autograph authentication has not kept up with fields like art and coins.
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Your wife must be smarter than mine. She couldn't tell a sharpie from a paint pen or the difference between a fascimile, pre print, autopen or actual signature and she's seen a ton of autographs. She can take pictures and text them though. Preprinted signatures have fooled some of those we are discussing in this thread more then once.
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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There's more Tpa's, who want to enter the business yet, you can only cut the pie so many times!
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Permalink Reply by Mr. Steffman on
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Unless they are innovative, why bother?
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Of course there are. It's easy money suckering the unknowing. These guys who got in early in the TPA business ie...Steve Grad, his flunkie Brian and the Spence's have probably never had a real job in 20 years.
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Why anyone would want to pay you, Justin to authenticate anything is beyond me and im not trying to be offensive.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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I don't know...what I know, which I read is a actually good thing, but I am very interested in Justin's opinions, and that can be said of a very few. Getting an opinion and authenticating...to me that is a different thing. I might consult someone, but that is to assist my decision making process. If it (my decision) were to be fully made by another...well, I might as well just start buying "pretty" stickers (darn ugly billboards).
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Let me be a bit more clear. I will pay for an opinion. I have never paid for an authentication. That's the fun! That is the work. That is the hobby. It is my money. I trust myself with an assist when I feel needed.
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