Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 1:13pm

Have him join this autograph group, Mark.  Did he ask you to deliver that message?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 1:10pm

JXE, you and I go back a long time on this website.  I sense that you and Joe W are both frustrated.  Please consider this.  History for Sale was willing to give me a full refund for my Steven Spielberg autograph.  Not because it failed a reputable TPA, but because members of this website questioned the authenticity of it.  You may recall my contacting you about it last year.  Coincidentally, I contacted Joe W as well.  I declined the refund.  I still believe it to be authentic.  I also know that Eric F would not give me a hard time if I were experiencing the same thing that Joe W is experiencing right now.  You have done business with him as well, and I am sure that you agree.

Whether the Robert Shaw autograph was on a Jaws or The Sting photo, does it matter?  That is simply a distraction.  The fact remains that if the seller guarantees authenticity, they should stand by their product, regardless of whether it was a PSA QuickOpinion or not.  Again, another distraction.  

My concern is that members may feel the need to defend the seller in order to preserve their own personal collections.  Believe me, I totally understand.  The vast majority of my autographs fall into the category that you have described in this discussion, and I could not agree more.  It simply does not sound like Joe W is as comfortable with authenticating an autograph based on a seller’s reputation as we may be, nor should we expect him to be.  Nor should we expect other collectors to be.  It sounds like Joe W, and perhaps others, may prefer the autograph to pass a TPA.  That is nothing to criticize.  As a matter of fact, it should be welcomed.  In the end, it protects us all.

Those are just a few things to consider.  May the Force be with you!

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Permalink Reply by JXE on July 19, 2020 at 3:19pm

Mike, the type of trade is not a distraction. I've been consistent in my stance that this is an authentic piece that is lower value than a sit down autograph because it is a rushed street scribble. He asked me to appraise it and I suggested $200-300. Joe W wrote that he has "eaten an autograph." If he traded an index card or a playbill or something of the like for this photo, it was a fair deal, value wise. Furthermore, he could list this for sale with a K9 cert and get that kind of money for it or maybe more. 

I simply disagree with you about a quick opinion. They are notoriously inaccurate, and a quick opinion is not as conclusive as an actual authentication. In fact, they result in "likely genuine" or "likely not genuine." That is a non-committal response, and a $10 quick look over the internet is not the same thing as the attention they might give it for a $50 authentication. In fact, Joe W reported in another thread that he was on the receiving end of a faulty quick opinion recently:

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/david-gilmour-inter...

Here's how he felt when it happened to him:

"I've already been talking to the buyer. At least, I think they now see that PSA is not perfect. I understand people can get emotional when they think they've been had. We've seen it on this site here over and over..."

I think it is fair to expect that if someone is offering a guaranty, the burden of proof should be an actual rejection letter from an in-person authentication and not a quick opinion, which is expressly not meant to be viewed as a be all, end all certification.

Your statement about members defending a seller to preserve their own personal collections is really coming out of left field, and I'm surprised that you would suggest that my opinions and advice in this thread are anything but an honest response to the information Joe W has provided. I personally own maybe 2 or 3 items from K9, so I'm not counting on his reputation for any personal gain. I simply know enough about his reputation to know that some of what is being said in this thread is unfair. This whole thing sounds weird. Based on what Joe W has written (and it is vague in key areas), he made a trade with K9 for this photo. Now he doesn't like the photo because it didn't get a "likely genuine" quick opinion that he didn't think to get before he initiated a trade. As far as we can gather from this thread, the solution he proposed is that K9 should sell the photo for him and give him the money he makes off of it. On what planet does that follow any sort of authenticity guaranty? You mentioned an instance where you had a question about an item you purchased. The difference there was that you purchased it. As soon as you start wheeling and dealing with trades, it gets harder to identify a solid remedy so you'd better know what you're doing and make an informed decision in the first place. 

I think that instead of stating that he has "eaten an autograph" and lamenting that he isn't getting timely replies from K9 during a pandemic, Joe W. should get his rejection letter and pursue his claim in private for that statement of the guaranty to be honored if that's what he wants. If not, he can resell it to people who understand Ford signatures and understand that the value of a K9 cert exceeds the value of a PSA cert. Someone in this thread already offered to buy it. I would buy it too if someone was offering it for a reasonable price. Those are all better options than bemoaning that he's "eaten an autograph" at the expense of a seller who isn't in this thread to defend himself and has had nothing but positive feedback from experienced Ford collectors for literally decades. 

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Permalink Reply by Mark Miller on July 19, 2020 at 3:39pm

“understand that the value of a K9 cert exceeds the value of a PSA cert.” That’s Rubbish.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 3:48pm

That is not precisely what he said, Mark.  If you reply with quotes, you should be accurate.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Miller on July 19, 2020 at 3:52pm

I copied and pasted his exact text. Explain that.

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Permalink Reply by JXE on July 19, 2020 at 4:00pm

The only way I could explain it is that your mouse must have malfunctioned when you tried to copy and paste the complete sentence I wrote. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 4:16pm

Mouse?  What is that in 2020?  Sorry JXE, I could not resist.  In all seriousness, the seller should simply reply to Joe W’s messages, and work to make things right for a fellow autograph collector.  What does he have to lose?  Regardless of the Robert Shaw index card, or photo, or Playbill or whatever it was, he clearly has no issue with it passing a reputable TPA.  He should allow the same courtesy to Joe W.  I encourage members to reach out to him.  I know that I would if I could, and I would advise him not to reply only to private messages in other autograph groups.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 4:04pm

No you did not.

“If not, he can resell it to people who understand Ford signatures and understand that the value of a K9 cert exceeds the value of a PSA cert.”

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Permalink Reply by Mark Miller on July 19, 2020 at 4:08pm

Yes, it’s the exact clip I copied, with the exact same meaning, and again I say, the idea that K9 outweighs PSA in ANY format for value is Rubbish. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on July 19, 2020 at 4:21pm

He was referring to autograph collectors of Harrison Ford who are familiar with the seller.  You conveniently left that part out.  Perhaps you did not understand what he was saying.  If you read it within its full context, I am certain that you will.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Miller on July 19, 2020 at 4:29pm

I understood it completely. It’s still a stretch of a statement. I simply think too much stock is being put into K9 as if he was someone comparable to the big 3

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