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***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Tags:
Steve, this one is interesting. Beckett authentication aside, Is this a real legal document? This could potentially address questions of a slanted style signature but his divorce is listed as 1977 and the 1st sheet has 75 as the year. I have no idea how long his divorce dragged out but supposedly "Blood on the Tracks" (released Jan. 20, 1975) has links to tensions relating to his "estranged wife" Sara.. Dylan has denied these claims
Sara did not file for divorce until March 1, 1977. Would a document like this pertain to something else besides the divorce? I probably do not have all the facts but this document is listed as a dual signed divorce contract. Could someone shed light into this? There are huge gaps in my overall knowledge of Dylan as I really never cared about his personal life to these depths. As of now, this item seems suspect to me overall
It is also the only item I see so far out of the links you posted that could shed light. Beckett authenticated this in 2021. If it had been authenticated prior to 2018, it may still be an item to really look into but im not comfortable using this piece as a 100% Dylan signature without more info
Also, this documented was posted on this very same forum before Beckett certification. Has anyone found other examples of Sara's signature from that time period.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/bob-dylan-sara-dyla...
I have not seen any other examples of Dylan's slanted signature from the 70s. This slant seems to have popped up only with his recent examples that no one has witnessed other than his management (something we can not rely on). I do not see anything in his handwriting from the many items I've studied to suggest this is real. I would love to know what Beckett based their decision on. I cant state this enough though. My research is limited to what I can find in which everyone can verify is 100% real and not from the opinion of an authenticator.
I honestly feel at this point that Beckett got this one wrong but please, if someone has more info, I would love to be proven wrong for the sake of the truth
Ha, this is why I am trying to stay quiet until more info comes out, but thats no fun.. I found these items with similar signatures. Are they real? cant say.. but the key may be found by researching Sara instead of Bob.. Im excited as it may be another lead
The 2nd picture was sold at Heritage auction back in 2003
https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/autographs/bob-dylan-rare-signed-d...
Great searching, Jason! An authenticator or specialist who has studied Dylan's autograph for years should be able to answer these questions.
Jason, I’m sure those are signatures are in Dylan’s hand. I need to see the first one in person to make sure it’s the original and not a copy, tho.
You might be right. I have a busy week ahead but ill try searching for more dual signed items with Sara's signature. I would love to find Bobs normal style signature signed with Sara and be able to connect everything.. Lots of comparisons to make but this has potential to proving it is possible he has used a slanted style signature in combination with his more commonly known signature for most of his career. I dont want to give any more opinions until I feel certain myself though.
If anyone is able to locate other dual signed items by both Bob and Sara, please post them here
Good question, Jason. As far as I know this is a real legal document.
It's not a divorce or separation agreement. It's an operating agreement during marriage specifying what is separate property and community property for the couple, and how income is handled. The tensions in their marriage around 1975 probably led to it.
In this case, dual-signed means it was signed by both Bob and Sara.
Check out these Dylans-signed lots:
Goldin Auctions Dylan prices realized search results:
University Archives Dylan prices realized search results:
(Lots signed by others where Dylan was mentioned are also there.)
The signed lyrics should be hugely helpful. They have upright signatures, and if the lyrics look to be in Dylan's hand those signatures were signed by him too.
The 1987 photo should be very helpful too.
Seems like what they're trying to say is known criminals are helping other known criminals convince a completely incompetent business that their past and current illegal activities should now be considered legal, with millions of dollars of fraud at stake. And the people against whom the fraud was knowingly committed are supposed to trust their word on it.
Yup pretty much. They're like an abusive relationship, retail stockholm syndrome... We'll abuse you, but you will still love us. Trust me, I didn't rip you off, I only ripped off every one else... I'd never rip you off, take my word.
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