Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Grant Davis on November 12, 2011 at 3:31am

Hoooowheee?!

Forget the authenticity - yep I'll get into trouble for saying that! - this forum is 99% about education and helping each other out.

Go and pay someone to verify your 'authentic' Morrison - apparently there are plenty out there that will - whether it is authentic or not.

DON"T attack people for giving an opinion which YOU asked for and don't like their answer.

I would be banned from this site if i took your opinion for every negative comment i had on my auto's.

Gee whiz, you got some Bad Attitude Thingfish. 

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on November 12, 2011 at 6:31am

Hang it on the wall and call it real. If nobody can prove it fake then whats your issue? Based on your thought process you've already made your mind up that its good. Why you so worried about others opinion?

Try to sell it and you'll need a so called expert opinion. Bet it fails to pass authentication from any reputable company. You probably already know this. Thats why your here and obviously sour. Then again I bet your whole made up story is bogus too. Everybody claims they get junk from a 40 year old collection. You all try and act like you struck gold. The stories are more fake then the junk you claim to find.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on November 12, 2011 at 9:33am

No one likes to have their prized autograph's authenticity questioned.  But unfortunately, since you did not get the autograph in person, you are left with opinions, some of which are educated, some are not.  if you are going to keep the autograph, the only person whose opinion counts is yours.  You seem very comfortable with the story, the age of the paper, and the signature.  What you were looking for here is someone to jump in and say "yeah, it looks good".  the people on this site have very good intentions, and take this hobby seriously. some have areas of expertise that far surpass those of JSA, PSA and any other third party authenticators.  Every once in a while, someone hits a home run, and finds something like presented here.  More often than not,(a LOT more often than not) if it seems to good to be true, then it probably is.  

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 12, 2011 at 10:38am

There's no comparison between your Morrison signature and the one offered by Christie's. The Christie's signature is a very unusual example, while yours resembles a typical Morrison signature, but with inconsistencies and a failure to capture Morrison's "style" of writing. 

That said, I totally understand how much you want it to be authentic. I would too. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 13, 2011 at 3:19pm

@Thingfish:

I don't know if the Christie's piece is genuine or not. I think it's genuine but atypical, even though the "s" and other traits are there, but I would not buy an autograph like that for my collection.

I recommend avoiding controversial autographs—ones most specialists don't agree are genuine. And for the most part I don't recommend buying atypical autographs where authenticity is debatable. 

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Permalink Reply by Gordon O'Steen on November 12, 2011 at 7:08am

Okay.  So I wake up this morning, get my coffee, throw in a load of laundry, turn on the computer to AML and find Jim's response.

Not cool.

Once again, I thought we were having an interesting discussion.  Stupid me!  Sorry Jim if we "clique of collectors" did not cut the mustard for you.  And as for your opinion of Steve....I have never personally met the man and no, I do not always agree with him, but both he and Roger Epperson are two of the most respected individuals in this field.  Like it or not.

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Permalink Reply by Gordon O'Steen on November 12, 2011 at 7:55am

Steve.

I hope Jim's response will not turn you off to posting a further opinion on the Christie's signature.  I would really like to know what your friends have to say about it. 

I am definitely a firm believer that a given signature can be deemed authentic and not resemble any known exemplars.  A couple of years ago I went to Macon, GA and toured the Allman Bros. museum and the now defunct Georgia Music Hall of fame.  The GMHOF had an Allman Bros. contract, signed by Berry Oakley, that did not remotely resemble known exemplars of his sig.  I took a picture of it if you would like to see it.  For this reason, I would really like to know everyone's opinion on the Christie's sig.  And for the record, I will throw in my two cents.

I think the Christie's sig is authentic.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Kasmar-AutographPros.com on November 12, 2011 at 10:08am

Ok, now this thread is getting a little spicy~!  What I don't get Thingfish is it sounded like you believed your item is authentic based on Christies having one that is very similar yet your last statement is as if you believe Christies is fake.  

Michael Kasmar

Win a FREE AUTOGRAPHED GUITAR - ENTER HERE: http://www.autographpros.com/facebook

 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 13, 2011 at 3:38pm

@Mike:

I only want autographs that convince me they're genuine. Anything less, and you're likely buying one you'll have a hard to impossible time selling someday.

And be wary of anyone who tells you to buy what you're comfortable with; to be your own judge. That's advice commonly given by members of the forgery industry. 

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on November 12, 2011 at 4:45pm

JimFish is a little fired up. You ask for opinions, you get opinions, then you get grumpy.  I don't get it. 

Thanks again for the site, Steve.

 

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Permalink Reply by Josh Board on November 12, 2011 at 11:06pm

The Doors are my favorite band, so this is by far, the most interesting debate I've been involved in in some time.

First, let me state a few things. Mike is EXACTLY CORRECT. I've been backstage at Kimmel (my friend was touring with Chris Cornell), and with The Rock, and other big stars on the show, no autographs (although at that show, many do sign at the fence outside). It's an EASY WAY to claim authenticity. (look up Doors concert, date, etc...say you got it at that show). But guess what? Go see U2 next time they're in town. Tell me how many people "outside" will get anywhere near Bono. Answer, NONE. So, he might sign 20 autographs backstage, if that. Now, if somebody claims in 25 years, that their "dad worked security at that show," well....be prepared to back that up. It isn't hard to prove where your dad worked 25 years ago (business card, etc).

As was stated, EVERYBODY has something in the attic. True story: my daughters great grandfather, was best friends with Babe Ruth. He had bats signed, a uniform of his, signed letters, balls pictures, all personalized. Guess what? When he died, they were no longer in the attic. Nobody knows what happened to them. Valuable stuff doesn't just get handed down to ya like that. Easy stories.

Now, Jim/fish -- two things for you to consider. Try to realize what Steve Cyrkin was saying, or what place hw as coming from. We all log on here for free (which is especially painful for me, as I was paid to write for the magazine for years and years...now you guys get my stuff for free ;-)

So, somebody comes on here...and they get "free" opinions from experts. Can't beat that. And guess what? If they like what they see...they can go sell on eBay or for some company. I much prefer when somebody logs on and says "My grandfather died, left me these 50 autographed baseball photos. What do I do with them? Are they worth anything?" We usually look at them, and we can tell instantly they're good ... and we post "Well...they're all made out to "steve," which decreases the value, but 17 of them are hall of famers, so you'll get $50 a piece, at least, for them."

You have a great story. Whether or not it's true. Just don't get offended if we doubt it, instead...understand WHY we are.

Also, you make AN AMAZING POINT, with the CHristie's thing. Had somebody wanted to sell that Morrison signature to me, I'd have doubts. But...two things to consider. They're a BIG, HUGE auction house. Second, forgers RARELY personalize signatures, for TWO REASON: they are worth less (as Albert Brooks joked in a movie when his rich brother bragged about the signed Babe Ruth baseball "It says 'To Mitchel....unless you name your baby Mitchell, who really cares?"). Also, by personalizing (or writing "cheers" as was most common with Jimbo signatures)....you are giving experts (ie Roger), MORE WRITING in which to analyze the forgery. That's the LAST THING a forger wants to do.

Another thing is...The Doors most often signed with only their first names (jim most often signed "j Morrison"). I had an album signed by 3 of the Doors...all first names (missing guitarist Robby). And you couldn't read the names, as it was black ink, signed on a dark album. This is the stuff we see that we KNOW is real. A forger wouldn't do that, because...why? It took me five minutes in the light, to read the damn first name signatures!!!!

Your story is just too perfect, on to many levels (as I said in my original post). It's simply, the best forgery I have ever seen.

Now, in regards to your "before collecting became big business..." something to keep in mind...Edgar Alan Poe got fan mail asking for his dads autograph (I forget who his dad was). And, there are cases of Lincoln autographs being forged in the 1800s. Selling autographs and forgeries, has been around A LONG TIME. This isn't a "business" that just started happenin'. Yes, the internet, and all that eBay crap, has increased it. Anybody (who as a person stated earlier...can practice for hours on end..and if good, can come close)...and guess what? An easy $100 is made by somebody on eBay.

Another thing I tell people, when they come to me for advice. For example, somebody buying a Lennon signature that their friends grandfather got outside Shea Stadium (yeah, right...). Why did nobody else sign it? You're next to a Beatle. Don't you have Ringo sign it? Sir Paul?  No...just the most valuable Beatle signature?

Roger and people like this...will tell you funny stories...things like "I saw this Beatles piece. The most amazing set of signatures...signed on a program, with the original ticket stub. A Beatles collectors wet dream. And guess what? Right over the Lennon, it was signed by some bloke, that turned out to be the tour manager. Arggghhhhhh!!!!"

Because that's what fans do. THey stick papers out, ask people to sign them...and 50 years later when things are worth big bucks...you regret that you put that Mickey Mantle rookie card in the spokes of your tires, or asked the guy carrying an amplifier to sign your program, not knowing he'd sign over another persons name, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Steve on November 12, 2011 at 11:13pm

Well said Josh.

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