Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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****WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION****
“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, actually include autopen signatures.
Multiple signatures appear to share identical geometry in specific segments when overlaid.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures:
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath.
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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The signatures in these books appear to have been produced by an advanced autopen system capable of introducing subtle variations in letter structure and placement, likely intended to disguise the mechanical origin.
Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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Perhaps send some to VeriMarx since the submission are free...might be interesting.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Furness
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Jason H Lumpy THE Z flow? yep that definitely screams of being off.
the "broken" out of line L that then reattaches? yep, that doesn't look good.
Eric Keith Longo "Multiple templates and placements, the occasional "bump" here and there."
Exactly Eric, I had written right away on the forum about multiple templates being used.
And you had said a "bump", I can't quite explain it ... but I had said to Matt that it's almost like when you'd listen to a vinyl record and "bump" the turntable accidentally, the needle would jump, perhaps skip, but then resettle back into a groove, and the song would continue.
We are all onto something here.
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
JJ
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I have two CD covers in my collection which are said to be signed by Liza. I have no certainty on whether these are genuine, but thought I would throw them into the mix! It might help the research process.
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Thanks to everybody for continuing to post their examples and such. I’m still working on things but had to take a break for a while. For anyone who has not posted their own example yet, please feel free to post a picture of the front and back of the signature page. I’m trying not to pull random copies from the internet as they may be duplicates… I’m trying to keep up with where I got what. I still think we need a few more overlays/examples to further develop this.
I’ve looked at so many of these for so long that I think I’m starting to recognize some individual components…pieces that may have been put together to form various hybrid templates. For example, a lot of the L’s overlap exactly (right along with the Z for example), but not the rest of the signature. Or the “ove” in “love” overlaps exactly, along with the “A” in Liza and the circle of the smiley face… but the rest of the it doesn’t match without re-orienting slightly. You can see this in some of the existing overlay videos at the top of the page. Still working on it.
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Absolute killer work on all of our behalf!
Many thanks and kudos Matt M. !
I've replayed a couple of your OVERLAY videos, and I'm now convinced
that can only be explained with these being mechanical, and newly evolved
high end multiple template auto pens!
Saw this on the net:
Top High-End Autopen Solutions:- UUNA TEK® iAuto (Premium Series): Marketed as a modern alternative to traditional autopens, this device supports multiple templates, auto-feeds up to 80 papers, and can generate natural variations in signatures to appear more authentic.
Recall that Bob Dylan and his team, The "Respected" Book Publishers, Booksellers, and Art houses all denied any wrong doing until we illustrated so much visual evidence here on this site,
they finally caved and admitted the fraud.
JJ
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