We're an eBay affiliate and may be compensated on purchases made through clicks.
Authenticity is Everything
Roger Epperson.... Good Authenticator?
Hello everyone,
Please dont be misleaded by the title of this thread, as i am a huge fan of Roger's. I have bought numerous items from him and have had him look at numerous items. I will continue to buy form him with the utmost confidence. He has earned the reputation of being the best in the world for a good reason, and that is something to be very proud of.
I am a member over at startiger, and recently in a post entitled NE Autographs, located under the general discussion category, someone posted a commnet that i just cant live with. Someone had asked who was a good trusted authenticator and i mentioned epperson. A member their (screenname: hastemail), who i believe is form germany, posted in reply this comment:
"OUCH, I hope you haven't wasted too much money on pieces sold by Epperson. He has a LONG history of purchasing fake items from forgers. He even fooled RR Auction several times in the past by passing through obvicious forgeries which RR Auction had to take back then and fully refund the winning bidders. Roadhouse, stay FAR, FAR away from anything that is sold, reviewed or "authenticated" by Roger Epperson. That will save you a lot of money and trouble!"
I then posted a reply basically asking him if he was off his rocker for saying this, as ive never heard even rogers competition, or haters, say that he is a bad authenticator of forgeries. Even the guys at anl or alert. And thats saying something, even they know that hes the best, even though obviously mistakes are occasionally made.
Here is the reply that was given:
csink, you want me to name an example for Epperson's misjudgements... how about item 791 of the June 2009 auction at RR - a LP cover supposedly signed by all members of The Clash. When informing RR auction about this item, Trish replied with the following e-mail on June 6, 2009:
"Thanks so much for your patience as I researched your concern further. The Clash LP, item 791, in our current June 346 (2009) auction came with good provenance and was approved by our authenticators. It was originally sold by Sotheby’s Amazon in the UK.
This item was also reviewed and accepted as genuine by noted music autograph specialist Roger Epperson. As such, we stand behind this item with our lifetime money-back guarantee of authenticity.
We appreciate your sharing your concerns with us. Please feel free to contact me anytime if I may be of further assistance."
Best Regards,
Tricia
Tricia Eaton
Auction Processing Manager
RR Auction Company, LLC
BUT... a few weeks later another e-mail from Trish arrived and in it she explained they had pulled the item because the autographs were indeed NOT authentic. Read for yourself:
"I am writing in response to the recent post regarding The Clash album we offered for sale in our June 2009 auction. Thanks to one of our astute and experienced customer's concerns, we researched the signatures further.
After re-evaluating the item, we finally came to the conclusion that the autographs were indeed not authentic. As such, RRAuction honored our lifetime money-back guarantee to the winning bidder by refunding his purchase price in full.
Just wanted to let everyone here know RRAuction takes authenticity very seriously. During the rare occurrence that an authentication mistake is made, our company is known for doing the right thing and owning up to our initial oversight.
If you ever have any concerns in the future, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Best Regards,
Tricia
Tricia Eaton
Auction Processing Manager
RRAuction Company, LLC
It's extremely disconcerting that Roger Epperson would authenticate this item in the first place. If a simple collector can call fake on the album why not him, he's allegedly the "expert". That thing was so fake it stank. There's a lesson here for everyone. Educate yourself and trust no expert but one's self.
If you need further examples of Epperson's misjudgements, let me know
A further post went on to say this:
One of the most hilarious misjudgement made by Roger Epperson was when he "authenticated" Metallica's 2008 remastered vinyl re-issue of "Master Of Puppets" supposedly signed by Cliff Burton. The only problem here is that Cliff Burton died on September 27, 1986 which is 22 years before the remastered vinyl re-issue was even released to the public. Nevertheless, Roger Eppeson once again issued his report and certified the signature as authentic. 
I can't say it often enough: Educate yourself and trust no expert but one's self.
Now i kindly asked this individual to please post as a topic here on Live about eppersons mistakes and what his issue was with him, that way roger could reply to him, because not everyone is a member at startiger. The member however didnt do this and posted the messages pictured above. I do not think its fair to say these things about roger, they may be his mistakes, but we need to get his opinion on this and the issue can be debated. I have invited this member to this site to debate the issue, although i doubt we will ever hear from him.
Please, will everyone who reads this post your opinion of roger good or bad and your credentials. And responses to the above comments. I dont want some new members at startiger to read the response of one man and get the wrong impression. If your gonna make statements that roger is a bad apple, your gonna have to back them up.
I am very eager to read responses, so that i can share with the community at startiger as to what rogers real reputation is.
Thanks so much
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Trapper9990 on
-
Hi Mike,
lol, sorry about the credentials part. I was just trying to add some impact to the responses. As im sure what ill hear from this guy is that you and others are just random uneducated people. When in reality i know that guys like you are about as educated as it gets and know their stuff more than just about anyone.
And he asked if i needed more known passed forgeries, and i told him yes. I asked to see every example he could possibly find and to post them here where it can be debated. Im sure ill end up having to copy and paste from their to here if he responds back, but its worth it, to see all of these obvious forgeries that roger is and has been passing, lol
-
Permalink Reply by roger epperson on
-
Well if this BS didn't raise it's head up again.
In regards to the Clash LP that wasn't a so called fan that made that post, it was Mike Frost of PAAS. This album was and still is authentic. Trisha at RR Auction "jumped the gun" and made that post before consulting me and has since posted an appology (which was not given to you) about the mistake on their part. In regards to the Metallica LP have you seen the LP in person? The front and back are from different albums. This is the way they creeps out there try to ruin the reputation of good dealers. Don't be fooled by these silly tactics.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
-
Roger is the top popular music authenticator in the world. He is one of the only professional authenticators brave enough to say exactly what he thinks, even though he knows he may be attacked for it. That has made him a lot of enemies over the years among sellers and authenticators of forgeries.
The Cliff Burton-signed "Masters of Puppets" is part of the so-called Roger Epperson Sting, and none of the albums have been made available to be inspected in person. One of the people involved in it was Dave Wakefield, the forger of this Beatles-signed guitar:
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beatles-signed-guita...
Dave Wakefield was also involved in the so-called sting against JSA, and is a friend and business associate of Christopher Morales and Jerry Gladstone of American Royal Arts.
Mike Frost of PAAS and the IADA-CC was involved in spreading the BS about Roger and the albums, but later issued a retraction and apology:
http://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/iadacc-michael-fro...
-
Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
-
Trapper, I don't understand the basis for starting this thread.
-
Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
-
I was wondering the same thing, Chris. Roger Epperson specializes in Rock and Roll autograph authentication. What sets him apart from PSA and JSA ( and I believe he actually authenticates music autographs for at least one of them) is that he does not claim to be an expert on everything, like the other major authenticators do. He has a vast library of exemplars, and does his homework. And he is also generous enough to offer his opinion on items posted here, free of charge. I do not trust many authenticators opinions , but in the case of Roger, if he says its good, I would feel very good about the item.
-
Permalink Reply by Barry S on
-
Roger is as good as it gets, I trust him 100%. I would not collect R+R if there was no Roger. He doesn't need to prove himself here, we all know him here. I read all the s*** everywhere else and made my decision to become a member here. I say take away this discussion, don't want to start an AA all over again here.
-
Permalink Reply by John Strickland on
-
I agree Barry I read a lot of crap to before joining but I sifted through it and decided to join and have been very happy with what I have learned here great group of people with good judgement and opinions that I trust.
-
Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
-
No authenticator is perfect. I'm sure they have all made mistakes. Some decisions I imagine are very, very tough calls. I've never seen him claim he was right 100% of the time. Those that claim they are would be the authenticators I'd fear the most.
I've had Roger look at items for me before. I believe he offered a solid opinion one way or the other. I value his opinion either which way he thinks of an item. The above claims just look shaky and vindictive. Only an idiot would lay any value to what was claimed.
-
Permalink Reply by J.Seah on
-
I trust Roger's opinion, expertise and integrity in music autograph authentication over any other 3rd party authentication companies that are out there. Keep up the good work Roger!!
-
Permalink Reply by DB on
-
Roger, dare I say can and has made mistakes. Recently, as we all know a hendrix was pulled from R&R that Roger had pre-certified. It is what it is... when any of us cannot challenge any expert with the facts, not myth, innuendo BS or speculation then this site has, IMO, gone to hell and a hand basket just like several others that are currently in litigation!
Having said that, is Epperson any different than Reznikoff who failed to identify Al Ruddy -vs- Al Pacino or Simon on a babe ruth or was it mantle (it gets so confusing). Does it matter that GAI gave away thousands of certs or that some couldn't figure out a derek jeter if it was handed to them!
I'd rather have Epperson on my roll call to give me his opinion than dozens of others. While I have no supporting detail it would appear to me that even among his "critics" he is well respected. Too often, including here, we give way too much homage to "self declared" experts. We the collectors need to constantly challenge them and unlike Joe Orlando of PSA who typically ends with ,"if you'd like to discuss here is my number"
too often we take or alow those critics to take out of context over and over again w/o full disclosure and therein lies the issue.
-
-
I am curious, and I am not questioning what you are saying about the hendrix. but since we are all dealing with "opinions" here, what evidence prompted the Hendrix to be pulled? some other authenticators "opinion"? In reality, unless the forger comes forward and says "yes, I scribed that", how do you really know?
-
-
do we ever really know when it comes to opinons? From what I saw from a myriad of emails, jpegs, and collateral information there was enough substanative material to create significant doubts of authentic. What doesn't get published however, is people like Epperson will also without remuneration review some main line auction house offerings before they become available to the general public that result in pulling "tons" of non-authentic material. Thus, what is the evidence in those circumstances?
As I said, when the day is done I'd rather have epperson opining than a host of other wannabes including a number of his fan club members as was recently denoted on another thread.
Photos
Videos
Groups
© 2024 Created by Steve Cyrkin, Admin.
Powered by
Badges | Report an Issue | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
