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ANOTHER Obama...

Here is yet another Obama that I am looking at... :)

Would love to hear opinions

thanks

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on December 26, 2012 at 3:56pm

Steve -

I'm not going to get to it. Period. And I did not throw down any gauntlet - I offered an opinion, as you do a dozen times a day. If people want to get rabid over it, that's their (mental) issue - not mine.

I have an auction to run and lots to catalog, so I scarcely have time to dwell on this subject. I've sold 45,000 lots over the past 25 years, as you well know. Our return rate is something like 1:750 for any reason whatsoever. Do I guarantee my material? Yes. That's more than I can say for PSA/JSA who issue opinions willy-nilly and get paid, no matter how wrong they may be. Do I make mistakes? Yes. So do you. Do I call you, or any other dealer to drop your pants to show me how, when, where you get/got your material if I question it? Of course not.

If people don't like my opinion, that's fine. I've made my bones. In court I don't ask lawyers and judges to show me their school transcripts and law degrees - I defer to their experience.

Case closed.

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Permalink Reply by Lex on December 26, 2012 at 9:33pm

My last post didnt pop up, so ill re-do it, hope its not a double that im not seeing...

as sad as i sound!, i actually agree with Steve, I do get a little out of hand sometimes and go overboard and am usually the instigator, so thanks for the warning and have had plenty of egg nog to wind down and scream a little less!

Bill, you say you want people to use the information found on your website as long as its in non- commercial purposes, and thats what i did, in order to constructively, yet colorfully, express my opinions, just as you say you do, a dozen times a day... It actually was you that stated my Obamas were forgeries as a fact, based on you thinking he didnt have time to sign a magazine, etc., yet you can sell a short ALS to a citizen that would take longer.. so It would appear everyones signatures are up for scrutiny but yours by the nameless, faceless on here.... The fact is another user put you up as an example on this discussion and I believed that your knowledge of Obama wasnt accurate, based on your smart lil comment on the bridge and i took it to the extreme and overboard as i usually do! I apologize to anyone who was offended by my "colorfulness", but stand my opinion that i very seriously question those Obama signatures posted just as others have, i have just done so in a more brash manner!

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on December 28, 2012 at 8:38am

Hey Steve -

Not to beat a dead horse.. but I thought you were going to post up some of your findings and opinions on all the Obama autographs that I posted.

Again - for the collecting community and what this forum is about - helping people with their hobby - I think it would be VERY helpful to post what you like about certain Obama signatures and what you done like about others.

thanks

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 28, 2012 at 4:52pm

Mark,

I'm sorry that I'm late getting to this. I'll post what my concerns are as soon as I have a couple hours to do more research. And I'll give my opinions on the others I was asked to comment on.

What concerns me is that my references may be outdated. I wasn't paying attention to Obama's autograph during this campaign, and if he changed characteristics and signing habits, I need to put a call out for examples.

One thing I don't get, though, is how some people could get multiples signed. I thought it was no more than one per customer. Has that been explained by anyone offering quantities?

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Permalink Reply by J.S.C. on December 31, 2012 at 6:55am

THE 8 THAT MARK POSTED ARE GOOD EXAMPLES FOR YOU, BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD. OBAMA DOES THE CLINTON THING WHERE HE COLLECTS STUFF AND TAKES IT TO THE BACK BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE TO SIGN AS MUCH THAT WAY. ONLY PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING WERE GETTING THERE STUFF TO THE BACK, AND YOU CAN GET MULTIPLES !!

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Permalink Reply by Lex on December 31, 2012 at 12:18pm

Id just say to go with who ya trust, if its PSA, thats fine, if its JSA thats fine... and if its neither, thats OK too.. But, I would suggest getting one from a reliable source... Anyone can tell ya they went to an event by looking it up with google. Thats all id suggest is to go with who your comfortable with.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on January 1, 2013 at 1:34pm

Here is a signed photo on the latest RR auction - this one was certified by PSA

And here another that is certified by JSA and also PSA

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on January 4, 2013 at 8:00am

My mistake.. the photo is certified by JSA and PSA as well. Very interesting to see that they BOTH agree on these two examples.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 4, 2013 at 8:28am

No question, we need to do a study and call for unquestionably verifiable examples.

Mark, would you be interested in being in charge of it?

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on January 4, 2013 at 8:31am

Sure - I don't mind.. but what exactly would I be in charge of. Finding examples that are authenticated by BOTH JSA and PSA??

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on January 4, 2013 at 8:38am

No.

To be a verified exemplar, I think they would have to be official documents, signatures accompanied by lots of handwriting with an extremely low likelihood of being fake, or from an unimpeachable source. (I think finding an unimpeachable source for the purposes of an autograph study will be very difficult.)