Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by lightmover on June 2, 2013 at 6:10pm

you only have to look at the comments to know there are no pros here. There are unfair comparisons of my dealers to ebay crack pots who sell stuff for $10, incorrect opinions on how jimmy hendrix signed and only one example to compare with. I am sending my autograph away for professional opinion and will let you know how I go. I will not write off yet but If it comes back negative, I don't care anymore. Also thieving and uploading my name & photos over the net is a breach of privacy. The autograph deserves more of a fair trial.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 2, 2013 at 6:30pm

Sean,

I don't think anyone here thinks there is anything wrong with you getting other opinions if you want. But you came here for opinions, and when you didn't hear what you wanted to hear, you put down the members who were kind enough to give you opinions. Think about that.

Regarding other authenticators: You will definitely find some that will call your Hendrix genuine, but be aware that some of those names are not respected in the field, and their certifications are generally seen as a sign of a forgery, not an authentic autograph, by most experienced members of the hobby who know about them. Those names include AAU/Drew Max, Don Frangipani, Christopher Morales and most of the other "forensic examiners" known in the hobby, as well as AMA and to a somewhat lesser degree Global Authentics. If you're not sure about the authenticator you're sending your Hendrix to, you may want to check them out before you spend the money for their certification.

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on June 2, 2013 at 7:42pm

Steve is right on the money here Sean. I agree to send it to who ever you trust to authenticate it, but their are some horrible authenticators out their that cert forgeries in mass. No joke, they literally take money in exchange for a guarantee passing COA. So you have to watch out.

Their are many companies that when i see their COA, i typically never even pay attention to the item. Its not worth my time, b/c those authentication companies are so known for certing forgeries. And i know that most collectors who are familiar with autographs feel the exact same way about these companies. And when on the off occassion they do get the authentication correct, the autograph will always undersale typically by at least 20 percent if not much more. 

The Forensic Document Examiners out their (for the most part, in my opinion and experience), typically have worthless COAs that most collectors avoid. And then their are the other companies that i wont mention here, but you can easily find these out from asking most educated collectors. 8 out of 10 experienced collectors can tell you who is good and who is bad. 

I also would be very careful if you venturing into other forums. My experience with autograph forums is that by leagues, this is the most educated on the net. And i am a member of numerous forums that i typically dont use, such as startiger, fanbiz, and a few others. These forums, typically dont reliably provide  good authentications in my experience. And it was a long time before i realized and trusted the autograph authentication level of this forum. As when i first came here, i was told this forum had no knowledge and was all crooks. Of course where i heard this from was Autograph News Live and Autograph Alert and Ripoff report. So i did my own research and found out that a small group of people run ANL and AA, post on ripoff under many names, and try and smear anyone who makes it hard for them to sell certain autographed items. I looked at who was saying what and the evidence behind each statement, and it was beyond obvious at the end which party was educated, who was being honest and telling the truth, and who was lying for motive.

So i dont blame you for being suspicious and for taking it elsewhere. Just research who you send it too, otherwise you will end up with an expensive authentication cost and little to no resale value.

The members here are used to seeing people come here with autographs, getting a bad opinion, and then those items being stuck up for cheap on ebay to try and turn a profit on a fake item. Thats why the item was reposted by other members. Not accusing you of doing that, but thats just what happens here all the time...literally. 

I do hope you can get a refund in the end though. OH yeah, i wanted to say something about the paper and ink. Please dont be fooled by old paper and old ink. Their are tricks that forgers use to age both paper and writing. I see this often with Ruths, Hendrix, Beatles, Elvis, etc. This happened alot in Operation Bullpen as well. They do it so well, that the paper can look hundreds of years old, and the ink as well. Ive heard of different methods of doing it, but i do know that if a forger wanted to pay attention to detail, getting the impression of aged ink and paper would be absolutely no problem at all. Aging paper or getting old paper from that time period is very easy to do, and getting an aged ink look is also easy in the right hands. It just goes to show how clever forgers are, both now, and in the past. Its big business and they will take all efforts to ensure a sale. Unfortunately the Hendrix in question, in my opinion is no doubt a forgery. Hendrix was extremely consistent in every autograph he ever wrote on certain points. He always angled certain letters in specific directions, used a certain baseline pattern, certain salutations, etc. And this autograph falls flat on virtually all of them. Even though you are sending it into be authenticated, i would also start looking in to tracking down the original seller to see about a refund if you decide to go that path. Just suggestions on what i would do in your shoes.

Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on June 2, 2013 at 7:39pm

I chose the example that I felt was closest in appearance to your Hendrix autograph. I thought that would suffice. I understand how much you have invested in it, both financially and otherwise, and really wish that I could have given you a different opinion. I probably would have purchased it when it was on eBay, as the price you were asking would have been reasonable in my opinion had the autograph been authentic. In any case, I respect the fact that you pulled it from eBay once it was in doubt, and hope that it stays off the market.

Permalink Reply by lightmover on June 2, 2013 at 8:45pm

Thank you for your opinion & that's why I asked for opinion in case there was a question of authenticity & who knows, you could be right? some have said real, some say not real. I think putting things on ebay actually goes against autographs because of ebays reputation.  Also the catalogue it was joined to had many other autographs so I wonder if they are fake too if this one is? In fact, they were very expensive pieces, probably owned by forum members here. Are they from the same forgers, if this is fake? The autograph has been sent away for professional opinion. If I decide to sell, all fors and against its authenticity will be revealed.  Lets see what comes back and I will keep you updated.

Permalink Reply by Barry S on June 3, 2013 at 9:22pm

Sean I am not a pro, but there are pros here. I know you want your autograph to be real, and I would love for it to be real too. I hate to see someone get burned, I have been burned. Thats why I am here on AML. Everything I have learned about Hendrix sig is that his letters slant to the left, I didn't even realize he signed right handed, I don't know how someone can sign right handed and their letters slant to the left? But all the real sigs I've seen on here do this. Your sig looks close but leaning to the right is the biggest thing for me, and I suck at authenticating autographs! When you want your autograph to be real many comments seem harsh, I know. Don't brush AML off, if you are a serious collector you don't want to lose this resource. For $15 shoot your sig to Roger, it's the best least expensive way to start. Good luck.

Permalink Reply by wascher on June 4, 2013 at 7:44am

That is very nicely put Barry S.  And I totally agree. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 2, 2013 at 6:07pm

Sean,

You said you paid $800 for your Hendrix in 2002. I don't know if you said $800 in this discussion, but that's what you said in chat. Where did the $2,000 come from?

Permalink Reply by lightmover on June 2, 2013 at 6:42pm

Hi Steve, that is in australian dollar, where I am from.  I ordered from USA. I paid exactly US$895.00. In 2002, the exchange rate here worked out to be US$1790 plus GST which came to AUD$1969, i rounded to $2000. A lot of money for me at the time. I was only earning $350 a week and took me a while to pay off but that is not the reason I am still standing my ground. To me, it still seems pretty real. The paper its on is brittle and old and autograph has faded. If fake, would have been done a long time ago. There are other factors also to consider also such as size etc.. I chose my autograph out of a beatles (could not afford this though), doors & another Jimmy hendrix that are out there as genuine. I actually came to buy it because I heard John Massetti on the news for catching out fake autographs including a beatles one, and I contacted him because of his background. He is very genuine so if fake it would be unintentional and may have slipped through. 

Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on June 2, 2013 at 8:32pm

Do you have images of the other autographs that you mentioned? I'd love to see them.

Permalink Reply by lightmover on June 2, 2013 at 11:15pm

yes I have them and they are known but I don't think it would be right to involve other peoples investments with opinions here. 

Permalink Reply by lightmover on June 4, 2013 at 10:05pm

Hi Steve, thanks for your opinion but if this is a forgery, I don't agree it would amateur. From what I am seeing, mine looks pretty good. Do you think the Ira Goldberg items are genuine?  

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