Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on July 11, 2013 at 9:59pm

No problem Mr. Williams. It really is true, i dont know anyone who knows these guys better and who has helped more to avoid baseball forgeries 

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Permalink Reply by Null on July 11, 2013 at 1:37pm

The hat is not authentic and the ticket I can't see clear enough to make a judgement.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on July 11, 2013 at 6:19pm

Jorge Santana,

I am sorry I have not had a chance to get back to AML earlier today. Yes if you would please repost a better photo of the signature on the hat and the signature on the bat. I would really need to see the signatures to be able to help you with the authenticity. I worked directly with Mickey Mantle for many years, mostly from 1984- 1993. I was with him at many autograph shows as well as private signings.  Early 1993 was one of the last time you saw the $55 show price for Mickey Mantle's autograph. The 2 boxes on the tickets was to separate the amount of flats and the amount of baseballs that were signed at the event. It was common for Mickey Mantle to only allow a certain amount of baseballs to be signed at a show. In the 1990's Mickey Mantle would start to complain about the pains he would get in his hands from signing baseballs. You shortly after say a price structure with with photos and baseballs have different pricing.  

I would like to see the signed items in question because a few issues do concern me prior to even the examination. Mickey Mantle in 1993 had already stopped signing Hats, Jersey's and Bats at shows and in private signing the price was any where from $700 - $1000 for him to sign a bat or a hat. This does not mean he never did because there was some rare occasions where he did sign, but that would be almost never at a card show. The other concern would have been that the original tickets were collected at the table when the items was signed. The tickets were used to confirm the number of items signed at the event and would be used to separate flats, baseballs and then the mail order.

Please post the bat and a better photo of the hat with a close up of just the signature.

Thank you

Michael Frost

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on July 12, 2013 at 6:19am

You are correct, the surface of the item being signed 

definitely makes a difference. Jersey's, Hats, Bats, Basketballs, Shoes, and other surfaces will show some variation to the signature that will differ from a signature on a flat photos such as a glossy photograph. The type of ink and pen is also a factor. The size and space available for the signature also plays and important role in autograph authentication. That is why it is so important for an autograph authenticator to have a strong library of absolute authentic autographs on different items signed during different settings, such as walking out of a back stage door or walking from field to field during spring training as opposed to sitting at a autograph show or a private signing. Thank you for this important question.

Michael Frost

P.A.A.S.

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Permalink Reply by Jorge Santana on July 12, 2013 at 4:42am

Mr. Frost, I will dig to get to the bat this weekend and will post on Monday. I have attached the hat and pictures of one of the tickets. I appreciate your assistance. Thank you, Jorge.

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• IMG_20130709_133551 (2).jpg, 1.1 MB
• IMG_20130709_133444 (2).jpg, 986 KB
• IMG_20130709_133522 (2).jpg, 1.6 MB

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on July 12, 2013 at 6:35am

Jorge,

I am sorry but after a review of both signed items I can tell you that the ticket is not signed by Mickey Mantle, The Sporting News hat I believe to be Not Likely Authentic although a decent attempt at Mickey Mantle signature on fabric. One thing is important in autograph authentication would be having an open mind. You can not fairly examine and authenticate an autograph when you have already made up you mind that the item is a forgery. That is way even though I know Mickey mantle most likely would have never signed a hat or bat at this show, I still would examine the item and the signature with a completely open mind. The other issue to keep in mind is examining and authenticating via scan, this is almost impossible that is why when do our On-line examination we always use Likely or Not Likely.. Without physically examining the item, the signature, the flow of the ink and the sizing and angles of the letters it is hard to give a 100% authentication. The scan examination does work in cases of known out and out forgeries and in autographs that in no way mach any known authentic exemplars.

I thank you for your time and questions as I look forward to seeing the signed bat.

Thank you

Michael Frost

P.A.A.S.

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Permalink Reply by Erich Jerozal on July 13, 2013 at 6:03am

I wonder then if the ticket stub is a Marino style forgery? 

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Permalink Reply by Jorge Santana on July 15, 2013 at 7:37am

Mr. Frost, I have attached an upclose picture of each ticket and the bat. I look forward to your assessment. Thank you, Jorge.

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• IMG_20130714_152651 (2).jpg, 1.4 MB
• IMG_20130714_152725 (2).jpg, 1.4 MB
• IMG_20130714_153354 (2).jpg, 1.4 MB

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on July 15, 2013 at 10:44am

Jorge,

I am very sorry but both tickets and the bats are not authentic.

I wish I could give you better news. Can you share with the members who and where you purchused the items from. I know the show promoter and he is 100% legit, so I would not believe he would have anything to do with these items or these tickets said to be signed by Mickey Mantle.

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