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The Art of Music - Problem!!!

Hi all.  I recently stumbled into your website after making a stupid purchase on a trip to Vegas (the last place in the world where you should be doing something like that, I know:).

I purchased the attached Paul McCartney autographed Hofner from them last week.  They were going to special frame it, so I do even have it in my possession yet.  In any event, they told me of their "100% authenticity guarantee", and since I no nothing of music autographs but have some experience in the sports arena, I started checking the web when I got home for authenticators, thinking getting a formal authentication would be great for the kids.  Then I stumbled into the negative feedback here and also and got concerned.  So I reached out to Roger Epperson who has kindly worked with me and confirmed it is fake (but in his words "a good attempt").

Of course, they say Roger is not "court certified" and I have to use someone else.  They told me I could use Drew Max, Christopher Morales, and Perry Cox (who actually appears legit from the search I did but can't find a website for him to contact him).

I'm adamantly asking for a refund and have filed a dispute with my credit card company, but it doesn't sound like they can do much as the invoice doesn't state "authentic" and All Sales are Final.  From talking to them, it sounds like I need to have them ship to me and then I'll pay Roger to do the formal authentication (or lack thereof), and then try to continue the fight.

I recognize I have an uphill battle and at a minimum wanted to share my experience for others to hopefully not make the same mistake, but any suggestions from someone that has successfully fought a case like this would be appreciative.  I read where one person filed a police report and mail fraud, so I plan to do the same, but it sounds like I have to play this out a while longer.  Does anyone know a good consumer rights attorney I should speak to?  It's not worth running up a large legal bill but getting a little guidance and possibly sending a nasty letter may help.

In any event, while I may be out my money, I am very appreciative that we have these resources so at least I know the scam that has occurred and don't participate in it going forward unintentionally.  It's a shame that I can't trust what appears to be a legitimate retail shop and yet my options to fight appear to be rather limited (and they really know the game and how to play it whereas I do not).

Thanks.

Jason

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on May 25, 2014 at 9:08am

Sorry this happened to you. I dont have exact factual knowledge on what exactly to do. However you dont have possesion of it yet and you have not paid for it yet. Stay on the credit card company and tell them you are not paying for it and explain your problem to a supervisor. Maybe you can solve it there. People here when they hear the names Drew and Morales go crazy because they are considered incompetent or rubber stampers on certificates of authenticity. Perry Cox is supposed to be a top guy on Beatles signatures but I think if he would look at your item it wouldnt be cheap. If the art of music mentioned him maybe they can get ahold of him. I wish you luck and others will hopefully chime in when they read this.There are good people here concerned about forged autographs. I dont know why Dateline or some local news show never gets wind of these stores to go in and expose this Blatant forgery factory.

Permalink Reply by michelle on May 25, 2014 at 9:39am

Sorry to hear about this.  The fact that anyone has asked you to go to have something authenticated by Mr No Morales speaks volumes!

The credit comp should be of help even if it says on the receipt all sales final ; - it may not say authentic on the guitar  but it certainly doesn't say non authentic Beatles sig. Who on earth buys a non authentic sig on purpose? I assume you have blocked the sale by using chargeback

From my own experience in a similar situation it has nothing to do with what the owner of the shop is saying; - you need to convince the 'independent' people from the credit company that you have purchased a fake.

A letter from Roger should help & maybe from one of the reputable music auction  houses like Bonhams in USA. They would charge about £200 for a condition report but it might not come to that

If chargeback doesn't work first time around you still have the right to appeal & the credit card   will give you the reason it failed first time. 

A point in your favour appears that you do not yet have the goods in your possession

 Anyway surely you should have the right under consumer law to change your mind within 7 days of buying something

Good luck ; - keep fighting

Permalink Reply by Jason Maddox on May 25, 2014 at 10:00am

Thanks for the replies and support.  Unfortunately after talking with my credit card company (Chase), I don't get the sense they are going to fight too hard for me.  Does anyone know a good, sleezy litigation or class-action attorney:)?  I think I need sleaze to fight sleaze...

Permalink Reply by J.Seah on May 25, 2014 at 12:12pm

Do not accept the delivery at all cost. Do not sign for it. Then press your credit card company to do a charge back. I hope you get this resolve soon!!

Permalink Reply by Steven Jackson on May 25, 2014 at 5:54pm

Jason may want to explan it to perry he's a good guy and if Epperson failed it he prob could with just a photo this was his email last time I spoke to him ( was in 2011 but assume it's still valid)

perrydcox@aol.com

Permalink Reply by Jason Maddox on May 25, 2014 at 11:37pm

Thanks Steven.  I found it today and have sent him an email along with a couple other correspondences via other vehicles where I could find his account information.  Waiting to hear from him.

They are adamant I have Perry authenticate.  So either 1) they are confident this one is actually authentic? or 2) they have a way to forge Perry's authentication?

Now how do I authenticate the authenticator:)???

I'm afraid this saga will continue for a while.  I will continue to document so hopefully someone else can be spared the hassle that I'm going through.

Permalink Reply by Xwiesy on May 25, 2014 at 6:25pm
Holy cow- talk about similar. Roger's correct, pretty good attempt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-MCCARTNEY-SIGNED-HOFNER-BASS-GUITAR-PS...
Permalink Reply by Jason Maddox on May 25, 2014 at 11:38pm

Thanks, does look close to my untrained eye.  I haven't asked Roger what about it indicates it's definitely not real.  Do you think there is a chance it could be?  They are adamant I have Perry Cox authenticate it.

Permalink Reply by Jason Maddox on May 26, 2014 at 12:05am

Also, what about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paul-McCartney-Beatles-Signed-Autographed-H...

Looks awfully close to the one I purchased, authenticated by PSA/DNA.  I know that firm well from sports memorabilia, but how reliable are they on music autos?  Is this one legit in your opinion?

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on May 30, 2014 at 1:41am

It also has Frank Caiazzo's COA, and Frank's the top Beatles autograph expert in the world. PSA/DNA is quite good on the Beatles as well.

I'm not surprised that the one you bought that Roger called a forgery looks close to this one to you. After all, you haven't studied McCartney before. But if you do, it won't take you long to see the difference between this one and highly suspect one you bought.

Permalink Reply by Rock G III on May 31, 2014 at 11:54am

Tell them its your way or you refuse delivery. Strange a company would act like this you would think they would be on your side for more business. Looks like they are more concerned with putting cash in their "authenticators" pockets who are some of the biggest failures out there when it comes to autographs. It would be like saying hey you want a refund get ace to fail it, knowing full well they pass anything. 

I love these scammers 100% money back guarantee that they never seem to honor lol Why stop there I'll give 300% money back guarantee. 

*RED FLAG*

Permalink Reply by Jason Maddox on June 3, 2014 at 1:06pm

Just a quick follow-up.  Thanks to Roger's assistance, and several lengthy faxes supporting my claim, my credit card company has proceeded with the chargeback.  

Rock G, you are correct, a legitimate company would want you comfortable with the transaction and would proactively manage their reputation.  Unfortunately, that's not how they are behaving as they continue to fight me through this process and have not voluntarily refunded me the money.

So now I wait for their response to their bank, which I guess could take up to 60 days.  So I have a couple months to know if I for sure have won this refund/cancellation or am going to have to continue to fight!  Ugh!!!

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