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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 11, 2014 at 11:49am

Hi Roger,

Let me ask you this--I'm just thinking out-loud, so bear with me.

I too was told in confidence from someone who the consignor is on the art... and I've kept my word too not to say who that is publicly, but don't you think its a bit odd, that the seller of these items, has a near identical autograph from a totally different consignor on a different type item?

The signature is from a "note" from a sick child....  (it has that weird down-stroke incomplete i that I noted earlier). 

Here is the auto from the Mickey Mouse art from Cooper and Owens Auction below.

You almost have to do a double take to make sure its not the same exact signature.

I mean we know how many era's MJ signed---over 45 years.  What are the chances that two different consignors show up to this place and hands in near identical sigs, nearly same flow, and possibly even the same marker as some of the others.  It almost looks like he sat down at the same time and wrote all of these out in a row.

Again the award, and then a collage of the Loopy J sigs from the art.

The far right one in the collage in blue is the Mickey Mouse

The artwork as far as I know did not come from the sick childs place, it came from "a friend of the family"-who was named to me.  I'm going to assume you have the same information.  If that's the case don't you think this is odd?

wascher

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 11, 2014 at 1:14pm

Are you saying that I authenticated both of these items or are you asking me my opinion of these these two signatures?  If there is a note please show that too.

also, and what award are we talking about?

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 11, 2014 at 1:17pm

http://www.thememorabiliavault.com/michael-jackson-american-music-a...

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 11, 2014 at 1:40pm

I should also add, there is something very odd with the awards--they mention there are two copies of this award (2 of 2) ?

But it has different font compared to the one found in Juliens (sold in 2009).  MV's is tighter and more cramped looking in font--Julien's very easy to read and more open. Here are the two side by side. I put a line in one area to show where the c from the word "music"--comes up in a diff spot.  Even if I were to push the photo together and make it look more cramped, the c would not change position.   They are pretty close but not quite.

There was a site not too long ago with information in the MJ fan community about fake AMA awards going around that could be ordered online and engraved.  I don't know a whole lot about it but I remember someone else was selling an award awhile back that MJ didn't win an award for, also from AMA.  This is just extra information for you in case you need it.

-w

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 11, 2014 at 1:54pm

So the answer is NO, I did not authenticate both items.  Also I don't authenticate awards of any kind.  Are you saying the letter is not authentic?  Are you saying that the letter matches the artwork that is signed?

thanks

One thing I just noticed though about the awards is the font is the same and in the exact same type size.  I have been in the printing business for 35 +years and I know fonts and point sizes.  The only thing I see different is the camera exposure, the angle that the photo was taken at and the the development of the image as one is gold and one is copper in color.  If both were exposed at the same exposure and shot from the same angle would that tell the story a bit better?  Do you see how the Juliens one is tilted forward to the camera where the MV is shot straight on?  I took 2 years of photography in high school and still a photographer today.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 11, 2014 at 2:06pm

It says you authenticated the note, with the award, on the link I provided for them here:  http://www.thememorabiliavault.com/michael-jackson-american-music-a...  

And I believe you also authenticated the art, the Mickey Mouse http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/32578267_collection-of-art-by-m...

Sorry for the confusion?  (the Juliens one has nothing to do with you, its just that they claim in MV's sale of their award--that there are 2 awards floating around--and I did find one, on Juliens with diff font.)  Hope that clarifies.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 11, 2014 at 2:48pm

:)  Hi yes, I do see that, and did take that into consideration.... maybe this might help you see where I'm looking... look at how some letters touch eachother.  A real good place to look is at the date at the end  1986.. MV's numbers are touching eachother (Juliens doesn't)...  Even if I stretched MV's wider,it wouldn't add gold space between, they would still touch. 

If you look at the word American, the r and i touch eachother in MV's.  In Juliens they don't.  The c and a also in the word American.... its just a tad different ?  See it?  (maybe not lol) :)   We're both at that age you know (pretty close any way lol) 

Anywho its not a huge deal but I thought I would mention it.

The biggest alarming thing to me was the two seemingly identical autographs (one on a note and one on art) from two different sources but from one seller.  

(labeled so that helps I hope). 

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 11, 2014 at 2:53pm

Wow you are right. The font is not the same. the number 2 in 27 is the clearest giveaway between the two awards.

Nice catch.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 11, 2014 at 2:41pm

I agree with Roger on this. Both of these would need to be sitting in the same position. One being tilted throws it off. I think the font is the same as well. Tilting forward and a shot being closer can make the letters look much wider like it shows on the Juliens picture.

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Permalink Reply by AJ Jones on December 11, 2014 at 2:44pm

I can agree to an extent that the fonts and sizing are identical, but the problem im also having is the placement of the "h".....even if the angle and tilt are off, i can't see how that would change the placement of the letters. 

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on December 11, 2014 at 3:02pm

Agreed. I believe that Wascher is correct. The font is the same, but some of the formatting is different. For example, if you compare the respective "American Music Awards" lines, one has more space between each letter.

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Permalink Reply by The Memorabilia Vault on December 11, 2014 at 5:32pm

Hello, in response to the AMA award. As you can see the photos you use to compare the two awards are taken at different angles so one will look wider then the other and so forth. The award was very hard to take photos of. It is reflective and you also have to factor in that the actual acrylic part of the award is clear. In order to not lose the clear acrylic part of the award in the background we had to work using various lighting and so forth. That is the explanation for variances in the photos. That said the award shown from Juliens and the award we had are not the same award as there were 2 awards made. That would explain any variances if any exist. The award you show from Juliens was supposed to be in the Michael Jackson Juliens sale from 2009 that never took place. The award we had was a second award MJ had which was gifted to a sick child in 1995, that is why it is labeled 2/2 as it is the second award. The story of the sick child and history is better explained in the letter that accompanied the award. Also please notice that we never say Roger Epperson certified the award we only say he certified the note signed by Michael Jackson. The verification of the award was a totally separate process.

Thanks

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