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Authenticity is Everything
Please help on Michael Jackson signed Thriller
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-thri...
Some members, including myself, thought it was an authentic example of Michael's early-80s autograph. The seller posted this:
"This is Michael Jackson's Thriller album, autographed by Michael. The album and autograph were obtained when I worked at Tower Records on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood, California, at the time of the album's release. Michael Jackson, who visited the store frequently, was shopping in the store. After helping him with his requests, I pulled a "Thriller" album off of the rack and asked him if he would sign it. He said "sure" and sat down, taking off the shrink wrap and signing it for me in my presence. This was not obtained from a dealer: its provenance is flawless. After thanking him, I took the album to the back room and put shrink wrap around it to prevent any wear and tear to the album cover or the autograph, which was made with a permanent black Sharpee marker. The album has never been played and the album cover and autograph are in excellent condition. Any "cloudy" look to the above picture is due to the layer of protective shrink wrap that I put on it. Exceptional Large Autograph!"
It was not authenticated, but I believe her story very much. It was the only item she was selling. So it's not like she's has some huge inventory of questionable autographs for sale, which can be a red flag. She also said she worked in the entertainment industry for years.
Here's the problem, I paid PSA/DNA for a Quick Opinion which came back "Likely Not Genuine". However, I have personally known people who got in-person autographs that PSA/DNA said were not good, even though they ABSOLUTELY were. I have a friend who did a private signing with Mickey Mantle years ago, and PSA/DNA rejected over 40 Mantle's that she had signed right in front of her!
This MJ Thriller looks really good to me when compared to other vintage MJ autographs, except I don't think he usually dotted the "i". The sharpie ink also looks old to me. But I have seen some Mantle i's dotted and not dotted too.
The thing is if I buy this and then send it in and PSA rejects it even though it is good, that almost renders it worthless.
I would appreciate any and all help and opinions on this. There are pics below.
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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James,
Wascher posted her concerns about the authenticity of this autograph, and I think she's right. I'm no longer comfortable that it's authentic.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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Thanks for your reply, Steve. It's just I've compared it to at least a couple of vintage MJs that PSA said were good, and this seems to match up well to me. And the ink looks older to me as well. But I know Wascher is EXCELLENT with MJ autographs.
But if I were going to send this in and PSA/DNA rejected it after reviewing it in-hand, wouldn't it essentially be worthless? Unless I suppose JSA approved it? But that would cost a lot in fees plus shipping, and then it still might be rejected by JSA as well.
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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Psa should stick to sports there have been to many fails ive seen on the forum that are genuine.
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Opinions can change over time on some autographs. Most forgeries are fairly obvious, but some fakes are so good it takes a while for them to be widely known to be bad. And some genuine ones are so unusual it takes time for them to be accepted as genuine...if they ever are.
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Excellent points, Steve, for sure. It is so very true that there are some really good forgeries out there, but then the forger just goes a little too far and makes a mistake. Maybe that circle-dotted "i" is a tell-tale sign. But I think the formation of the "i" and the first "c" look really good compared to other vintage ones.
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James,
My rule of thumb is to never buy something unless I'm confident it's real and that they marketplace will accept it add such.
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Another good point, because you could have a rare genuine example, but if the market doesn't accept it as such, if you ever wanted to sell, it could be a problem.
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Permalink Reply by John McGinnis on
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right Steve. this means more than anything now days (unfortunately). if a musician or celeb gives you a hurried or "off" signature and does not match up with what an authentication company has seen or has on file it doesn't matter if its real or not. its fake for all intents and purposes to the company, the potential buyer, and the public. It is only real and authentic to the person who obtained it.
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Paul,
Modern entertainment and music are much harder than modern sports. The autographs are often inconsistent, sloppy and just scribbled.
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Permalink Reply by wascher on
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Hi James/Steve, just so my comment isn't take out of context or not completely understood, in my earlier response on this autograph my opinion of it was: that I like it, and I don't. And that I was not comfortable saying its for sure good. HERE
What I did and do have concerns about is the amount of new 80's autos showing up, ones that look really good to me. There just seems to be a large influx lately, which Kit also noted. I hope they are all good for the buyers sakes, but I'm keeping an eye on them and starting to save them so I can study them a little closer.
If your really into this autograph James, my suggestion is to hit Roger up here: http://rogerepperson.com/ He also does quick opinions.
-w
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