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Authenticity is Everything
Has JSA called a authentic a fake?
Has anyone out there experienced a time when JSA told you a real signature is a fake? I know that they have certified questionable signatures as real. Just wondering.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Douglas Shuler on
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I respect your opinion and appreciate your candor. We can agree to disagree on many of these topics, but we do agree on some of your points. Thank you.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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"Forensics...".
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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IMHO, every TPA would benefit by having an experienced and honest forensic document examiner onboard to work with their authenticators from the autograph field.
I agree with Chris and Terrier that a talented authenticator's years of experience in a person's autographs is by far the most reliable and efficient way to authenticate them, but that only works for popular autographs that are out there in decent quantities.
The ones where authenticators don't have a lot of experience are the ones where an FDE could be especially valuable; and any autograph, rare or common, where the paper or object the autograph is signed on, the ink and other objectively identifiable factors need to be examined.
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Steve, I was never questioning the experience factor, I believe that is probably factor number one. There exists other factors that you mentioned which are appreciated. For one to be truly an expert, by expert I mean one that can walk into court and be called an expert witness, calls for more advanced training and education. I would just hate to think that I have spent years learning this stuff only to be rebuffed by someone that just looks at stuff. I hope that I can be an asset to your site using both my education, training and experience. I believe we can all learn from each others experiences. Cheers
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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Douglas, you have to understand, that the acronym FDE (Forensic Document Examiner) and the word Forensics has left a bad taste in my mouth when to comes to autographs.
Have you heard of a company called Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators (Stephen Rocchi and John Gorajczyk)?
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Chris, yes I have and I do understand. I am not disagreeing with most of what you all are saying, but there are some of us in the biz that are not totally driven by the dollar. I am not about to pay GFA $100 to look at anything I have. Highway robbery comes to mind. Don't judge the book by the cover, people like me have nothing in common with them. I have literally personally interviewed with James Spence, cause I wanted a job at the time, and once he knew my qualifications and background he wouldn't hire me because I had more on the ball than than most of his people, probably a blessing.
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Permalink Reply by wascher on
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Have you posted the item yet and posted the letter from JSA calling the item "Fake"? I mean you are on this forum basically trashing JSA but you haven't shown this "fake" letter nor the item. And now you also say you once interviewed with them and they didn't hire you because "once he knew my qualifications and background he wouldn't hire me because I had more on the ball than than most of his people..."
I get the whole other part of being able to examine documents for live ink, aged materials and the like. I also get the part about TPA's making mistakes or even just saying they can't authenticate something but you can't have an entire discussion calling out a company without proof, especially now that you also state they refused to hire you.
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Fair question, Wascher.
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That is a fair question. First off, I did't trash JSA for 1) Their opinion on an item, and 2) For not hiring me. On the first, I just asked a question, on the second it's their right to hire who they want. It's not personal and I still use them as part of my business. In the REAL world of signatures, you cannot market (buy and sell) one that is not authenticated by someone. Sorry, people that I deal with still like to see that little sticker on the items they are buying. That is just the world we live in. I am proud of my academic, work related and training achievements, I earned it. So, before you start paraphrasing what someone else has stated, get the facts first jerk.
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Permalink Reply by just some dude on
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I buy and sell all the time. The little stickers that I dont pay for have never once impeded a sale for me.
Ive got a pretty rad little personal collection (again, no stickers) Ive assembled using my own eyes and the opinions of excellent hobbyists here.
TPAs are there for those who need and are willing to pay for their services - and thats not right or wrong - it just is.
You can be proud of your education all you like - Im proud of my degree too - but when it comes to autographs, one can do just fine without any formal training. All it really takes is a pair of eyeballs, the passion to learn, and a little bit of common sense.
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I have hundreds of signature items as well, most without them too, just used my own experience and such. I'm with you, but the crowds I run in just have to have them or they just don't believe it's real and will not buy. Like I said, that is the way of the world. I am surely NOT diminishing anybody on this site for their experience or eye for spotting real/fake items, it's just in my business having these extras is a must, especially in the legal setting. Thanks for the response and insight.
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Everyone has their opinion, Douglas, but the name-calling is unnecessary.
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