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Authenticity is Everything
Bob Dylan AUTOPEN Info To Help With Returns / Refunds - Simon & Schuster, Premiere, and Coles
***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Bob Dylan's Manager
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Bob Dylan's Agent
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Bob Dylan's Production Agent
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Bob Dylan's Law Firm
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 5816nick on
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This isn't a £30 book or £50 print these ranged from £500 to £25K....
I was refunded by Indigo, but didn't get a Free Book - I wouldn't want a Fake book anyway !
I'm in the UK and want what I originally ordered back in September - that is well within the realms of being reasonable and totally realistic - even we have to pay X amount for it - same as If I had bought a signed art print - which I nearly did from Castle Fine Arts a few months ago ! Bob and his team seriously need to put this right by a lot more than a paltry apology (I'm not even on Twitter) and I'm guessing there are still people out there totally unaware this is even happening !
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Permalink Reply by Jor-El on
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JK is right, even under UK consumer law it does not give you a right to demand the autograph. They cannot deliver and made you whole by refunding the full purchase amount. That's it. The contract has been rescinded.
If you want them to offer more it would be because of customer satisfaction. You should appeal to their wish to keep the fanbase happy - it's a relatively small community, they shouldn't kill their best cows if they want to keep milking us.
Lars also has a good point, this is possible criminal activity. This can be made aware to the authorities who might investigate and take action. However criminal law does not give us any more rights as a consumer.
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Nobody wants the autopen book. I sure don't. It p***** me off when I see it on my table, so that doesn't make things whole to me. As they say time is money, how many hours did people spend sending emails and filing disputes, fighting, compiling the info here, trying to get their money back, and dealing with frustration, being pissed off and disappointed, etc. An apology and a crappy book I don't want don't take those away. I don't expect they'll do anything more, but for me to feel even I'd want more than a fake apology and something to fill my trash can.
Thats like saying if someone robs you, then once they get caught, they return your money and apologize... that you shouldn't feel any different, and are even now because you were made whole, and nothing else should come of it. When that's not the case... You still had to deal with the trauma and would still want compensation or the person to be punished, then maybe you'd feel justice was served.
Granted this isn't as extreme as being robbed directly, and we'll all be fine once we get over being pissed off and the disappointment... but being ripped off/scammed/lied to by someone you're a big fan of doesn't feel great, having a dream item snatched away also doesn't feel great. So it's not exactly as simple as a refund and fake apology erasing everything... but I'm not expecting anything good coming from it, like others said its probably not a legal obligation for them to do anything more... unless of course anyone does decide to sue.. if they do offer real signatures that would be awesome, and would erase a lot of the bad feelings, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Yeah you're definitely more protected over there from the sound of it. Most of our government agencies that are supposed to protect consumers in the US are a joke (well most governent agencies in general I should say). The best chance we got is paying with a credit card or PayPal and filing a dispute... that usually ends up getting your money back, but maybe it's just me, but even that seems to be a bit less reliable than it used to.
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Just a friendly reminder. "Mail fraud is usually committed when a suspect mails out something with the intent of defrauding another person and is a federal crime that has been on the books since 1872. Various other charges could be filed along with mail fraud, and state or local penalties may apply alongside federal charges. It usually involves a deceptive letter that encourages or tricks another into sending money to them. Mail fraud can involve mailings that have crossed state lines, as well."
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The problem is nobody seems to care when the rich/corporations do this stuff to normal folks... The chances of getting any law enforcement to even look into this is slim to none. The justice system in the US is a joke. The only way to enforce any penalties to them would be to sue them, and that if you can afford a lawyer, or get one to take up the case and then they'd get any compensation you'd end up with anyway. I filed a complaint with the federal trade commission and expect to get zero results... same as any other time I've had issues that needed laws to protect me from a rich corporation. The only one who ever had any consequences come from it was me, and that was the frustration of dealing with them with no results/help.
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I would think that with the proven current $600,000 mail fraud and now the recent worthless art autopens, the total amount will exceed $1,000,000, just guessing here. Possibly a State AG would be an option. Again, just spit balling here.
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I agree they should do something but I have about zero hope when it comes to law enforcement or the justice system in this country. Unless maybe someone has connections, or wants to take a ton of their own time hassling someone to do something, or someone that got ripped off has enough F-you money to pay lawyers to persue it, that's about the only way I could see something being done. It's probably multiple millions in fraud... I think the print editions were something like 300. So depending on how many they sold that could be a lot of money in fraud. I'm not sure the threshold where class action lawsuit becomes viable in a lawyers eyes but those are also a joke for the victims. The lawyers get paid, but that's about it. So most possibilities or justice happening are unlikely in my opinion, but dont let me disuade anyone from trying... imo at best, if we're lucky they'll give us a consolation prize, if not our consolation prize was the crappy autopen book or print.
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I agree, it would be a very large uphill battle, some connections would definitely help. I'm only 3-4yrs in to this hobby and only recently found this website (thank you, all). Are there any other high profile examples of Simon & Shuckster selling autopens?
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I did a rough calculation yesterday the books and art prints you are Talking about is well over $8 Million in fraudulant sales !
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Permalink Reply by Nichole on
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Quite frankly bobs an idiot. He probably didn’t know autopen isn’t acceptable. Probably didn’t know it even existed. That’s my guess. I don’t know that for a fact. However it’s not an excuse. At all. The vertigo isn’t an excuse at all. He got caught and if he had t gotten caught he’d have never apologized and he would have kept the money.
im so disappointed
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Of course this fiasco does not take away from Bob Dylan legacy of music. We all have enjoyed his songwriting and music over the years. That is a given. However, the huge number of fans who believed in him and invested their money in his creation of art and books, are outraged. That hurts in many levels. He is a Nobel Prize Winner, for G - D' s sake. He does not need $600 from the Dylan fan who bought his book...chump change for BD. Just as Dolly Parton not needing the $450 book from her fans including me. As a collector, we thought we can have a piece of their legacy and enjoy Dolly's/BD's book ... that they touched a page "hand-signed" the artist. For me, it starts from the top. These artists knew what was happening and they did not care that we got scammed. BD actually admitted on social media ONLY when it was outed on this forum that the books were autopenned and Jason H. and the rest of them took it to the next level of the paintings and painting prints being autopenciled. Where there is smoke, there is fire. If the books were not proven to be fakes.. and then the paintings, you would have never known and BD would not have acknowledged this fraud... why? because there can be a class action suit filed by those who hold pictures autopenciled for fraud, duplicity and conspiracy. The books were refunded and the publisher's CEO fell on the sword for BD.
Maybe this will make other artists think twice about autopenning their creations the next time. We can only hope. Sure, I will still enjoy Dolly Parton' s music and Bob Dylan's music.. that is for all to appreciate. But I ain't gonna buy any books "hand-signed" from these two anytime soon. The disbelief and the time and effort put into getting my money back from Chronicles for PD's books ... OMG.. ain't going through that ever again. That took up time that I cannot ever get back.
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