We're an eBay affiliate and may be compensated on purchases made through clicks.
Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
-
Really? What name are they using now? I thought B&J was defunct.
-
Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
-
One of the owners individual names. He still tosses around the old store name as if he's a power player. Here is an envelope I watched get opened in 2010 and then items sent to AAU. Buyer was fully aware these items were questionable.
-
Permalink Reply by Monty on
-
I've heard of B & J haven't I? Aren't they or weren't they out of NJ at one time?
-
-
Correct. They were big in mail order and also set up at many of the cards shows in Long Island and NJ. They sometimes sponsored private signings, so their material wasn't all bad. Much like the nefarious Stan's Sports, they salted with real and used photos from their private signings to create an appearance of credibility.
-
Permalink Reply by Myles Gray on
-
As a collector of Mantle autographs does the condition of the ball or the ball concern you a great deal? I have a legit Mantle sig on a unofficial chinese badden baseball. I'm looking into finding another Mantle as the ball it's on kind of bugs me. The sig is a a beauty but it's pretty much on a toy ball. It seems like the Mantles have gone up in price over the last 5 years or so. Gonna be checking out the ebay auctions so I may be posting up a few pics in the next while for your guys input. Checked out all 122 pages so far and my "Mantle" radar is getting pretty sharp. Thanks for all the insight
-
-
The unofficial ball will diminish value. Because Mantles on official balls are plentiful, you'll find most collectors will bypass the unofficial ball. You'll only get a bite once the price is significantly reduced IMO.
-
Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
-
Here's another piece-of-crap Mickey Mantle forgery with a COA from Drew Max (AAU).
The seller responsible for this listing is Ebay seller "alexandersauctions2."
You have to love it when the sellers of this crap write in their title description "authentic." Bad freakin' joke!!!
Typical horrific Mickey Mantle forgery "authenticated (cough, cough)" by Drew Max.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230899234399
-
-
Textbook B&J fake.
-
Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on
-
It seems like the ones that have the most elaborate frames are usually fakes...not all...but a good percentage for sure...
-
-
Check out these horrific Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio forgeries.
These Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio forgeries on a photo are listed by Ebay seller byersjr.
This Ebay seller writes in his auction description "Christmas, Authentic........" Holy crap!!! You gotta be kidding me!!! What a piece of garbage and obvious forgeries. The seller's (Ebay seller byersjr) starting bid is "only" $455.00.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHRISTMAS-Authentic-MICKEY-MANTLE-JOE-DIMAG...
-
Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
-
oh man those are ugly. at least no one is stupid enough to bid on it.
-
-
The seller's (Ebay seller byersjr) starting is so high even the wannabe autograph collectors won't bid on that crap.
Photos
Videos
Groups
© 2024 Created by Steve Cyrkin, Admin.
Powered by
Badges | Report an Issue | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
