Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 27, 2015 at 6:51pm

Based on what I've seen, I believe he signed all three. The inscriptions appear to be in his hand. He uses either cursive or block letters to write "To". You got both, which isn't too surprising. It looks like for one of the photos, he used cursive and then wrote over it with block letters because the original was too light. The "Joh" portion of your name looks consistent with previous exemplars that I've seen, as does the "S". The end of "Sincerely" looks a bit unusual, but appears to be in his hand. I see characteristics in his signatures that I would expect in authentic examples.

These were sent to you at a time in which some claim that secretarials were being sent through the mail, so you may get some opposing opinions. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 27, 2015 at 7:07pm

Can you post some similar known genuine exemplars, Ballroom? Unfortunately, none of these look like genuine Jerry Lee Lewis autographs to me, although the third one looks close.

Johannes, I'm going to post your photos as images in a second. Send me the ones you couldn't upload if you like, and I'll place them for you.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 27, 2015 at 7:14pm

The problem is that the ones you consider to be "known genuine exemplars" represent a subset of authentic JLL signatures.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes on January 27, 2015 at 11:38pm

Thank you very much for the opportunity to place the photos. Here are the 2 photos from the same letter that I got from the Lewis ranch in 08/2013.

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Permalink Reply by Johannes on January 28, 2015 at 11:04am

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 27, 2015 at 7:28pm

You have to familiarize yourself with the characteristics of his signature. Take a look at the first one. The "To" is consistent with previous inscriptions. The pointed "E" in "Jerry" is consistent with his style. The distinctive formation of the first "R" is consistent with his style. The shape and formation of both "L"s differ, and both are consistent with his writing. The "E"s in "Lee" are consistent. The trailing off of the signature after the "W" is consistent.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on January 28, 2015 at 6:40am

I personally don't like any of them.  Sorry.  The "T" in To is just not consistent with the others I have seen that have been real.  The loop that the bottom of it really throws me.  The top one looks exactly like the By Request album I got in every way.  That one was deemed not real by most everyone - but Ballroom.   I would love to hear what Roger thought of them.  

Mark

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 28, 2015 at 3:01pm

Oh, really?

Reply by BallroomDays67 on June 5, 2014 at 4:46pmDelete

"Sincerely" and the signature are in the hand of JLL, and someone else signed "To Dave"?

Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Community Manager on June 5, 2014 at 6:07pm

Yes, I think so in this case.

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Permalink Reply by Null on January 28, 2015 at 7:15am

These are no where close to Mark's recent TTM returns that are considered "authentic". Here is a recent return of Mark's on the left, which looks like it was signed by a 79 year old man. I guess magically one year prior JLL signed like a flamboyant girl who just learned cursive:

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on January 28, 2015 at 7:20am

I agree with you 100% Ryan - And this is another one that I got back right after Christmas and it passed JSA.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on January 28, 2015 at 10:20am

Here's a recent TTM signature that most everyone agrees is authentic. Does it look like it was signed by a 79 year old man?

What exactly is it that differentiates this signature in such way that it should be deemed authentic? I'm not asking what the differences are between this signature and the ones posted at the beginning of this discusiion. I'd like to know what secretarial characteristics are contained in those signatures, but not in this one. I'm particularly interested in the signature from the third image, which shows Jerry performing.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on January 28, 2015 at 8:41am

I suspect we are at the point where we are not going to change minds, but a few thoughts based on observations following these threads for the past several months.

In my opinion, some of the exemplars being used are corrupted. Certain examples (TPA approved, for example) are being held forth as verified exemplars, which is an incorrect approach in my opinion. They may or may not be correct. But, if we followed this approach in 2011, we’d still be debating Charlton Heston secretarial examples.

Secondly, if more than one proxy signer is involved, it would certainly confuse and complicate the matter exponentially.

I’ve expressed my doubts – especially about the books – based on exemplars and the tremendous inconsistency we seen between the books and what comes back through the mail. The belief JLL is signing all of this stuff requires a vast leap of faith… and a willingness to accept anything from a batch of 750 small, tight and neatly controlled signatures to wild, loose and widely varying signatures all came from the same person in the same time frame.

Or, one could believe that one or more proxies are moderately skilled and sometimes closely replicate some of the tendencies that also occur in authentic JLL signatures.

Occam’s razor.

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