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Another Pink Floyd athenticty concern

Sorry to say I feel I have rooted out another very good set of Floyd forgeries and unfortunately the CD was passed by PSA/DNA, the Epperson Cert has been determined a fake.

This drum head just popped up on ebay. The CD has been passed around from dealer to dealer on ebay for a couple years now and is now passed by PSA/DNA.

I remember seeing the CD hit ebay years ago it I thought it was good but then a month or so later I saw a drum head hit ebay almost identical to the new (pictured above) and I noticed it was identical to the CD also, including one member being signed in red and thought... that was funny. So now this new one pops up and it became clear to me that these are in fact not real.

Because I have been getting in person autographs so long I am trying to present myself with a scenario that would produce these two (shown) items and the one that I saw a while ago (I can't find an image of it unfortunately) but I simply can't. Here are some bullet points.

- In person autographs never match identically from piece to piece like these do, it's like a machine signed them.

- The red pen, so getting something signed in red is not common, I has happened to me only once at a baseball game when Ozzie Smith grabbed a kids red sharpie and signed everything with it. People who would have the opportunity to get these three men should not have a red sharpie. And what? Hey Rick, can you a Dave switch on this one??? ya right.

- This is a classic forger move. Imagine him sitting at his desk with a pile of pens and little brain and screwing this one up.

- The drum head is a Chinese generic head, autograph hounds buy these in bulk for a few bucks a piece and so do the forgers. Similar to the Team Derek MO they buy hundreds of $1 bin records and they rarely even bother to properly take the price tags off, forgers are lazy and cheap. A VIP who would have the opp to lets say be in the same room as the 3 men would not have one like this ever and even if they were signed at different times it is clear that the members, given the identical signatures would have signed the CD and Head at the same time respectively so he would have had to ask them all to switch pens per signature which would never happen. So to me that eliminates that scenario.

- See the hitch in the Wright signature I circled. This is called indecision and it shows the forger couldn't continue with the flow Rick typically signs with. Rick does not do this hitch, and even if let's say he did it once cause he was bumped in a crowd or something you certainly would not see two identical.

- Since these are from the same hand I can see Dave squishing his signature flat to fit it on the CD, but not the drum head. This is dead give away.

I mean not the blow up PSA, again, but they really need to stop, take a moment, do some research when authenticating high end autographs. If you are strictly going off exemplars then you are not looking for pasterns left by forgers per say. I can't blame PSA though, it looks real with no context of the other one but they should know how hard David Gilmour is to get to sign and he should be very diligent in authenticating them.

I am interested in any feedback.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sam Iam on February 2, 2015 at 9:38pm

Roger should start doing an online database people can check. It would hinder these fake coas
Good catch guys

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Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on February 3, 2015 at 10:27am

I agree, his older certs are even easier to fake.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on February 2, 2015 at 9:54pm

Here is a pic of the "Real" COA's side by side on the drum heads so that people can see these are forged certs with identical Epperson signatures (it can be clicked to enlarge). You can also see in the large version the 2nd line on the first cert where it names "Janick Gers, Nicko McBrain" the line its written on jumps up after the McBrain. Photoshop for sure.

The sellers eBay ID on these two drum heads is hilminster (just so this is noted as well for future reference)

-w

(edit, I missed the U2, and added this one in after)

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on February 3, 2015 at 11:10am

Great find guys… I hope they get yanked soon!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Full Time Flipper on February 5, 2015 at 12:41pm

the trouble is Roger doesnt really help himself or his clients with his coas he rushes them and really ought to tighten up a bit hes speading himself a bit thin and i think taking too much on , this coa is for a hendrix item its been kicking around e bay which is where it is now and on a couple of auction sites for a while, it is actually signed on the back of a 1960s polaroid photograph of noel redding and hendrix on stage ..a point worth mentioning on a coa you would think but Roger has just put piece of white paper so either

1 he did this RR auction which is where the item last sold and didnt actually see it in person which isnt really good practice as he normally has to see the item in person to get a full certificate

2 he rushed it and couldnt be bothered changing the standard line from piece of white paper to polariod photo which is sloppy

3 its a fake photoshop which i dont think it is as it sold on RR auction

either way its poor practice and leaves the coa wide open to being copied

seperately the seller states he gets all his signatures in person or saw them getting signed but its from RR auction and was signed in 1967

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Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on February 5, 2015 at 7:26pm

let this be a lesson to people, don't just blindly buy autographs based on any singular persons opinion.

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Permalink Reply by James McCay on February 9, 2015 at 11:36am

I don't want a Pink Floyd autographed item anymore. I've been a HUGE fan since I was 10-years old. From 1994-1996 I started collecting EVERY Pink Floyd CD ever made (including interview CD's and Imports). In 1997 I had (28) different CD's. Other than extremely rare $200+ imports, I think I had them all. My 2nd wife was such a Floyd fan herself that I gave the collection to her when we split. I miss them, but I know she appreciates them as much as I did.
It is just too easy to make fake autographs that are so close that no one knows for sure if it's good or not
(not even the signers) as readers of FBI Operation Bullpen know. Sure, you can tell a BAD forgery- but there are far too many good forgeries on the market to take a chance on that simply isn't worth it, and one that I cannot afford.

I'll stick to well known card company On Card Certified Autographs. Their 99.99% Authenticity rate hasn't changed since I started saying that in 2001 (or earlier).

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Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on February 10, 2015 at 12:21pm

nooo James, don't give up. You just need to buy the slam dunk real item is all. It's people looking for the deal are not going to find it. It's worth paying 4 grand for a real album, it is, the value will always hold and go up. No more of being signed ya know.... I am here to help, ask anytime for my opinion.

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Permalink Reply by James McCay on February 10, 2015 at 2:05pm

Thanks Mr. Steiger,

I wish I could afford $4,000, but I cannot- not since I got very ill anyway. I thought if I used my training as a Forensic Document Examiner- I'd get lucky. But no luck with Pink Floyd.

I did get lucky with almost everyone else I really wanted autographs of, and knew I'd never see in-person: Christopher Walken (1983 agent contract for $25), Samuel L. Jackson (Star Wars 8X10 for $10) Carl Sagan (autographed book for $40), Guy Hebert autographed 2000-01 game-used broken hockey (Goalie) stick ($75- he was born on my exact birthday, both of us in NY- and only sports player who was). I snagged all of these in 2001-2002 when nearly everyone was paranoid to bid on any eBay autographs because of Operation Bullpen. All are definitely good. If they weren't buried in a large stack of documents in my safe I'd make scans. If I ever do get them out, I'll definitely post pictures.

I also got an Albion K. Parris (famous New England politician) autographed letter from 1828 recommending a man to the U.S. Navy (who's son died in the Civil War ironically) while he was in the Senate (on Senate stationary). Picked that one up at a 2000 FL Yard sale (a man died and his daughter was selling everything off before they sold the house, I asked her "how much?" and I gave her what she asked.) with a bunch of Civil War era Northeast railroad documents (over a dozen) in a large closing black folder all for $25.00! I spent hours making sure the Parris was authentic and it is. I also showed it to two Forensic Document Examiners since I got it and they both OK'ed it as well. That was the big winner. I'll be donating that lot to a museum soon if they want them. I'm sure that shouldn't be hard to find.

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Permalink Reply by Scott W. Arnold on February 10, 2015 at 2:26pm

James, you don't have to spend $4,000.00 to get a band signed autograph. Of course every pink floyd wants is an autographed copy of the dark side of the moon and their is one for sale on eBay, the asking price is a crazy $14,000.00 and they will never get that kind of money for it. I found a copy of the "Shine On" collection all the cd's near mint and the book that came with the set is autographed by Mr. Wright, Mr. Mason and, Mr. Gilmour. There was a hand signed autograph by Mr. Waters 8x10 photo that went with the set. The person was asking 5,000.00 Pounds for it, I offered 1,000.00 Pounds in US it was close to $1,500.00 us and they accepted my offer. So I have the complete band autograph, Ok its not as great as a dark side of the moon. But its real and its mine for money I could afford. Scott