Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by DB on February 27, 2012 at 1:54am

Bob, should, coulda, woulda, is a great thought and we around here often complain that it's the "buyer" that gives life to the "forgeries" by not doing their homework.  It would be nice to have much more edumacated in a utopian world.   That just won't happen.

As far as ebay is concerned they have to maintain a quality operation and agents in order to protect the company.  As such, when the evidence that they compile through what methods they deem appropriate to collect and results in a decision then they MUST  take action.  Had they taken their charge seriously they might have avoided multimillion dollar lawsuits and class actions.

One glaring overisght as an example is why isn't Amrican Royal Arts (ARA) Jerry Gladstone not already on the banned list?  Seems a no brainer.  But if they are not on the banned list yet how many items are listed?   Even if they aren't I wonder how many would still buy an ARA item on the 2ndary market?

Permalink Reply by Robert Sledz on February 27, 2012 at 2:16am

No, I am not.  I am simply saying that if there are some who have a certified autograph, let the BUYER BEWARE.  Let free enterprise dicatate whether that seller gets business or NOT.  Study, Research and you will be amazed how much the little guy can actually acquire in understanding all by their lonesome without the Nanny state....oh...oops...I meant, eBay.. telling us who is valid and who is not. 

What you are basically saying is that ordinary folks who buy autographs are stupid.  That they cannot through this site or through their own resources figure out if something is purchaseable or not.  You read the listing like every other.  You study it tooth and comb.  You get a couple good contacts to look it over.. You employ you own brain, not eBay's.  That's not so hard. 

Quality of operations?  Really?  Who decides that?  You?  Me?  eBay?  A Third party Authenticator?  What is the difference?  All of them can be very wrong.  They have.  I have 30 examples of UACC and PSA screw ups.  Try getting them off of eBay?  Right..

To maintain quality of operations you allow the general rules tht existed since inception and "LET THE BUYER BEWARE".  You have a COA.  Then you have a CERT.  Now it's Do you have the right Authenticator?  What's next?

Permalink Reply by DB on February 27, 2012 at 4:02am

bob, NO operations ever maintains the same "Qaulity of operations" they had at inception.  If they did, there would be alot more bankrupticies.  For those that do, can you spell Chapter 13?

There are a number of reports on Items listed on EBAY (e.g. Heston) that eventually disappear (some faster than others while others are at the pace of molasses going uphill backwards on a cold day). 

It may not be happening for those you cite but it does happen - even to PSA & JSA.

I frankly don't want to belabor the point but the greater majority of the "ordinary guy" is exactly what you state.  We see that here and other places over and over again. 

 Many think it is a great "steal" or they have someone who might have a COA from so & so.   I have a near friend and to test it out I gave him a burczyk (that I printed from here) along with a DickVanDyke (also depicted on this site).  The first thing he asked was..  is it certified... sure it is, here ya go.  He would have walked away with it cause he trusted my insight.  However, 3 years ago I had no idea who burczyk was or wasn't.  

Word of mouth sometimes is more dangerous than not doing one's homework.  And even when they do their homework they aren't going to make the right call many times 'cause it's not their forte. 

Permalink Reply by Robert Sledz on February 27, 2012 at 12:00am

No.  If an organization that allows sellers to sell their ware but discriminates against others fails in ethics and maybe even the law.  (I'm no lawyer, but their are several class action lawsuits underway agaisnt eBay)... Ya don't open up a business to make people sell in it and discriminate based on politics within it. 

 

This is pure politics.  Nothing more. 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on February 26, 2012 at 7:33pm

It sure wasn't political putting Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator on Ebay's "Banned COA" list.  It certainly wasn't political getting Ted Taylor and his TTA/Stat Authentic companies on Ebay's "Banned COA" list.  Like I wrote previously, when I first started investigating Derek Jeter forgeries on Ebay years ago, the majority of them were forgeries; but that is no longer the case.  Same with Mickey Mantle autographs on Ebay.  Every day new Mantle forgeries are listed and the majority of them get removed.  Recently there's been a rash of Mantle, DiMaggio and Ted Williams forgeries on Ebay with "CSC Collectibles" COA's.   When discovered, they get removed.  More can always be done, but only so much can be done on any given day.  It's much, much better than it ever was on Ebay.

When it comes to autographs and forgeries there will never be a perfect system to stop it, but we can certainly be aggressive about fighting it.

Permalink Reply by Robert Sledz on February 27, 2012 at 12:10am

Yes, it's very political NOW.  I don't know those guys.  I know it's getting tighter to sell any autographs even certified on eBay just cuz a certain "group" calls the shots there now.  You don't want to believe that, that's your business.

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on February 27, 2012 at 12:33am

Robert, I get the comparison. Just not a strong one you make. You comparing monoplizing a natural resource that is dominated and restricted primarily by countries who then contract out extraction by very large multi billion dollar companies to a supposed plan to monopolize autograph authenticators and/or the right to sell items authenticated by these shady companies or people regardless of the quality these items exhibit.

EBAY allowed sellers to use these authenticators. EBAY is a private company and can set guidelines in place to protect the reputation of their brand. Walmart refuses to carry products. There is no difference. EBAY only  intervening once the authenticators reputations in the hobby was so bad that these items began to affect the value of the items authenticated by more reputable companies and sellers as well as the number of complaints by consumers. Example: you sell me a forgery.With verification of this I can claim that with the buyer protection to get my money back through EBAY or their minority company Paypal. Company should just ignore the hundreds and probably closer to thousand of complaints from buyers? Really,believe it or not but buyers pay the bills.

Realistically there is no monopoly. Folks with signed Beatles items, signed Babe Ruth's...etc do not line up to use these poorly reputed authenticators. Folks with a Geronimo autographed horse apple signed on the "sweet spot" do. Chris Morales would be the authenticator something stupid like that gets sent to. He seems to have the deepest file of exemplars for the old warrior. Market seems to be split. Good stuff to the left and crap to the right. Good stuff to EBAY and crap to Craigslist.

Sounds like a win/win situation.

 

Permalink Reply by Robert Sledz on February 27, 2012 at 2:03am

Shell is a private company too and try finding an oil company like it for yourself even if you got the money for it... ya can't.  Crude oil has cornered the market and eBay wants to also.  Give me one...just one competitor to eBay that's even close.  There ain't any!  Get it?  So eBay knows this and they know where the money is in what merchants sell.  Eventually, like a cartel, they absorb an inner circle and guess what?  Your not it.  Cuz they don't like you anymore.  Your not one of them.  How does that make you feel?  Hmmm?  Well, that's what's beginning to happen with the autograph industry today.  It's huge and only a small few get to decide who gets to sell it and who doesn't.  Sure it's theirs to decide.  And sure it yours to open up a new Crude oil Reserve.  But can you?  Nope.  They know it.  And drive up the costs.  What does eBay want to do with their inner circle of autograph sellers?  Beef up their sales!  Only, they can't do it when there are 1000 different sellers.  They pick maybe let's say....50 for now.  Then 30, when they make up another reason.  Spike up the sales.  It's not only happening with the autographs anymore.  It's happening with other collectibles.  It's starting... And many of you just either don't see it, or know it and don't care.  You can "speculate" why.. ;)

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on February 27, 2012 at 2:56am

there is nothing to stop ANYONE from selling something legitimate on ebay.  If you have an authentic signed Roger Maris, and you choose not to spend the money to have it authenticated, your sell price MAY suffer a little, but it will not get pulled off ebay.  what does get pulled off are obvious forgeries, and I fully support that. If you are one of the ones selling them, then your items will be tossed also. If not, then you have nothing to be concerned with.  Yeah, PSA and JSA make mistakes.  they are offering opinions, and sometimes they may turn out to be incorrect, but even though the system is not perfect it is a hell of a lot better than it was, and anything that chokes these forgers and their associated "authenticators" is a good thing for this business.  Maybe not so good for the crude oil business, I don't know, I never studied economics.

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on February 27, 2012 at 5:56am

The funny thing is, if sellers did a halfway decent job at listing, very often they would get a price very close to TPA authenticated for most items.

Why? Because people who do know what they are doing are scanning ebay all the time.

If sellers use a BIG, sharp scan, a good description and offer a no-hassle return policy, they will get good prices for quality material. If a seller uses a fuzzy, small camera phone pic, no details in description with no return policy, is it any wonder they'll get a lousy price? But, they'll probably whine that they got a lousy result because "they didn't send it into whatever TPA."

Permalink Reply by DB on February 27, 2012 at 6:05am

I especially enjoy the listings with "lifetime guarantees" and a 7 days money back in the returns section.

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on February 27, 2012 at 6:08am

LOL. True.

I would assume it is 7 days for any reason and lifetime if found not to be authentic, but they should be clear about it.  :-)

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