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They both look like forgeries to me. The top one is way off for both "Marilyn" and "Monroe". The bottom one is a better attempt but neither part of the name is quite right either and it looks too deliberately written with no irregularities in pressure. I would certainly not buy either of them.
The first one is unquestionably a forgery. The second one is copied from an existing genuine exemplar.
The first one "that look" I have been describing. Also a bit legible.
The first forgery is a whimsical interpretation. It looks like the forger did practice, it does flow, but used Marilyn's signature as a point of departure for a new creation of their own. Interesting that the forger placed the 'y' of Marilyn at the very end of the first name rather than amalgamating it into one "ly" character typical of MM signatures. Also, how nice that the second 'r' has a bird's eye view of the rest of the lower case letters! lol Looks like Carrie Fisher's handwriting~!
It is too clean, uninscribed, legible and without apparent age - perfect to mat. Where do all these come from and cut from what again? ;) Suspicions arise...
These are both from the self proclaimed expert Kevin Martin.
the gentleman I bought my Ruth from bought these two pieces from the same auction. Both failed PSA. I’m expecting my Ruth to be a very good elaborate forgery now too.
kevin has stated he is the only court certified expert and everyone else is wrong.
how do these guys get away with this?
Datit wrote: "the gentleman I bought my Ruth from bought these two pieces from the same auction. Both failed PSA. I’m expecting my Ruth to be a very good elaborate forgery now too."
Was this an online auction? If so, are there any lingering online images of the items offered in that particular auction?
Also, any other Ruths that were authenticated or sold by Kevin Martin that there are existing images of currently online?
This was at the Russo and Steele auto auction.. They buy memorabilia from Kevin Martin at retail cost, then auction it no reserve as like a warm up act to their expensive car auctions..
After reading this thread, it looks like the forgeries from Kevin Martin out number the authentic autographs he sells 9 to 1.
I am expecting JSA to fail the Ruth.. I am already prepared for it, and I will know tomorrow morning when UPS typically shows up.
After looking at scans again though and exemplars, it will be one of the best forgeries on Ruth I have ever seen.
With that said, if it does not pass I will be calling Russo and Steele and letting them know that 3 of the items have already failed professional authentication. I don't know why people like Kevin Martin and his company can continue to operate unscathed.
The forgery quality of these is horrendous. The second one is just a straight, slightly slow drawing of an authentic exemplar, I know the exact one (the one inscribed to "Carlton").
But if the first one is an example of the forger attempting an MM auto not precisely copied from an authentic exemplar, (this one is a horror). I would think that if the Ruth is indeed forged, the actual incredibly talented forger of that Ruth would have been able to pump out a far more convincing MM than this one, at least one a lot closer to looking as authentic for MM as the Ruth does for Ruth.
I'd love to see other Ruths that Martin has sold or authenticated.
Martin normally deals with Entertainment memorabilia.. His sports stuff is few and far between. I haven't been able to find any others..
But here is the COA that came with the Ruth, look familiar.. The entire format was copied from JSA... LOL
Of note is the heavy handed pen pressure exerted on the second example. It's a recently done forgery, the track's uncharacteristically deep groove (atypical for the usual light and wispy MM signature) not having anywhere near the 65 or so years since signed (1952-1955 style) to relax and rebound at all. It looks to me like they used the often copied "To Carlton, Love and Kisses" inscribed exemplar we've seen used frequently to spawn other knock offs like this one.
I believe the first one is a terrible forgery attempt and the second one looks OK to me, but you should probably send it to a 3rd party.